The Cruelty of the $15 Minimum Wage

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Hoosier8, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good discussion on this. What are the pro arguments by those that think this is a good idea?

     
    Ddyad and ToddWB like this.
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,753
    Likes Received:
    11,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An economy can have a $15 minimum wage, but only when the supply & demand curve takes on a certain shape. (i.e. the shape of the curve is not elastic)
    Unfortunately, when you're on a certain point on the supply & demand curve, it's hard to know exactly what other parts of the curve actually look like unless you actually experiment.

    I find it ironic that calls for a $15 minimum wage have only come after the country was flooded by low skill low wage illegal aliens. Where were these calls to increase the minimum wage before then??
    Is it just hypocrisy and the American public being manipulated by the media, with the Left wanting the opportunity to cram the labor market with illegal immigration before the wages got jacked up? (i.e. Would the labor market have ever taken in so many foreigners in the 1990s if the minimum wage had been $15 then?)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    Ddyad and Hoosier8 like this.
  3. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Want to sum up the video for me? I don't have headphones.
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is badly done Econ 101 pretending to be reality. Consider, for example, the reality of asymmetric information and how it predicts monoposony power is the norm.
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,936
    Likes Received:
    63,224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the min wage has not kept up with inflation, that is the problem

    how many costs of living increases has congress had in the last 20 year

    how many costs of living increases to the min wage

    the answer is to tie these two together
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Technically you have to go further. It has to be tied to productivity, else it will allow increasing underpayment.
     
  7. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    9,063
    Likes Received:
    4,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Is this the same conservative right that decries immigrants driving down the cost of labor? I bet it is.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,936
    Likes Received:
    63,224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the min wage is the min wage a human can be paid, productivity is up to the employer to increase the pay based on the employees productivity
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is a guff response. You referred to a minimum wage being linked to inflation. That actually makes no sense (unless you're a liberal pretending to care). A minimum wage has to be linked to be productivity.
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,753
    Likes Received:
    11,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then why does the Left support the Fed continuing to create inflation?

    It seems like you complain about one thing, but support the policy that created it.
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,753
    Likes Received:
    11,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And you actually believe educational credentials make a worker more productive.

    I think we have to use the term "productivity" with a big qualifier.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,753
    Likes Received:
    11,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, that is ironic, but it seems to be more ironic against your standpoint than the "conservative right".
    Not sure if you realized that, or really thought through what you were saying.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,753
    Likes Received:
    11,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Would you agree that this is more an issue of capital rather than some other form of monoposony?

    If not, I believe my economic worldview is different from yours.

    "Asymmetric information" sounds like some contrived argument to help explain away a phenomena they do not truly understand. (i.e. just because it has some truth doesn't mean it is the explanation)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  14. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    1,872
    Trophy Points:
    113

    100 million Americans making $15 bucks or less vs 500 or so Congress men and women getting rich off of insider trading is a comparison?
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,936
    Likes Received:
    63,224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I said it should be linked to Congresses cost of living increases, only people losing an argument try to misrepresent what was said and then attack that
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  16. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    1,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why just quit voting for Democrats at local
    Level
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,936
    Likes Received:
    63,224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump is in charge, he is the one responsible for the fed printing money
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What a weak effort! A minimum wage that isn't linked to productivity is, by definition, not fit for purpose.
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're welcome to use Marxist analysis into how education is used to ensure compliance and encourage divide and conquer. You're also welcome to use orthodox screening analysis, used to suggest that hierarchy is needed to avoid efficiency wage payments.

    Perhaps consider the economics more before spouting off with standard right wing grunt?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,753
    Likes Received:
    11,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, that's only half right. The President doesn't actually have direct control over what the Fed does.
    What is true is he asked the Fed chairman to hold down interest rates, which inherently involves inflation. It's not clear if he actually understood the connection that exists between holding down interest rates and the fed printing money.
    I can't go into further detail without this discussion going off-topic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you know the President has no control over the Feds decisions?
     
  22. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    9,063
    Likes Received:
    4,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Please explain.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  23. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    1,872
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Yes illegals do drive down wages.
     
  24. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    9,063
    Likes Received:
    4,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And would US citizens being able to negotiate down their rate not do the same? It’d be a race to the bottom of the truly desperate.
     
  25. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    1,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who negotiates down there rate?

    If you pay attention to the job boards people in redstates are making twice their states minimum wage at low skill jobs


    Low skill workers in blue states make there states minimum wage, who gets ahead?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019

Share This Page