The Free markets simply CANNOT manage affordable healthcare.

It's to point out via one's sig, how credible one is. Whether or not to take one's opinion seriously. For the sig, is a statement you make every time you post. The basis for one's thoughts.

 

It is the topic. ObamaCare has not undermined support for government healthcare because the RP Congress saved it from failure. Republicans probably continue to do that.

Obama will not be remembered as an especially bad president. He will also not be remembered as a an especially good one. It is always a question of "compared to what"?

 

So you are still discussing sigs? A tad off topic ya think?

 

So you post propaganda to prove your credibility? Everyone knows the media was in the tank for obama. The American people rejected Hillary and by extension obama.

 

Facts are propaganda to you. Interesting. Doesn't help in the credibility dept.

 

Jimmy Carter looks good compared with obama.

Obamacare is the reason the healthcare system is failing. It has made a mess of it. But at least we know the government cannot handle it.

 

Proaganda are facts to you?

 

Many people now suspect that the government cannot handle healthcare. Hence Trump.

But the Republicans have saved ObamaCare from collapse.

 

The healthcare system was a failure before obamacare. Premiums were rising at the same rate or even at a more rapid rate than after Obamacare. Not only this, immoral discriminatory practices were in place, sonething obamacare seeked to address. Fact is that the system was failing pre-aca and is failing post-aca because it remains a laregely privatized system. The biggest lie is the the ACa is some sort of goverment takeover, it is not. The USA has the most privatized system of all major developed nations and we have the worst system when it comes to overall healthcare outcomes and costs per capita. If it is true that private sector is so good at healthcate, the US would be the envy of the world and we would have the best system by far. The opposite is true.

 

Keeping obamacare from collapsing is the right thing to do. People will suffer more if that happens.

 

Obamacare made the problems worse. Too many lobbyists involved.

 

Yep, our healthcare system has indeed been saved. Actually, our healthcare system isn't going anywhere.
Or are you referring to the fact the ACA was the plan concocted by the republicans back in the 1990s? IE, the plan in place today is courtesy of the R's.

 

It's worse for some, better for others. Fact is, ACa isn't much of an improvement or is it much worse than what we had before. The system remains a largely free market system. Is it regulated? So is banking system, is banking system government run?

 

The right thing to do is transfer all the loot that is funding the government health care monstrosity and place it directly under the control of productive workers to select and buy the care they need.

 

Read my posts. The RP has its fingerprints all over ObamaCare. Government corruption, waste and incompetence is a bipartisan racket.

 

I think you are suggesting a free market approach with far less regulation. That has been tried, amd it was not satisfactory.

If you think it can be satisfactory, you have more explaining to do.

 

And yet the banking system collapsed in 2008. The government did a bang up job....

 

Splain where it "has been tried".

 

I actually work in a bank, specifically the investment banking sector. The crisis was largely to do with private sector, and i know cause i was in the middle of it. Then, because of our failures, now we have to deal with Dodd-Frank, which i hate but i recognize we sort of made it happen. ACA is no different, due to private sector failures, ACA came to be. It's very easy.. IF the private sector hadn't discriminated against people with pre-existing conditions, kicked off people off insurance due to lifetime limits etc... ACA would've NEVER come to be.

This is what you people don't get. I myself want limited government and would love it if private sector could handle everything effectively but it simply doesn't. We have DF because of private sector failures, we have ACA due to private sector failures. Regulations exists due to proven failures of private sector, NO REGULATION just exists because some legislator made them up just for the h of it. Also, legislators pass laws based on what WE want and Federal government enforces them. We can blame ourselves for every law that exists, if we didn't want them, our legislators would've have passed them.

 

It has been tried in the US for decades, with congress working hard to attempt to align a capitalist profit motive with rational national health care objectives.

The ACA is as close as we have come, slowing the rate of increase in per capita health care spending while covering a larger percent of US citizens. However it has not achieved what single payer systems have achidved - high quality universal coverage with significantly lower cost per capita while allowing free market choice for those who can afford it.

And, Trumpcare isn't worth talking about, I'm sure you will agree.

 

Amen.

Free market capitalism is not necessarily aligned with rational public policy objectives.

 

YOu are correct about it all and it is going to collapse our country. Saying that throws the goody too shoe republican trump supported into a tizzy... "That could never happen, we are the greatest country in the world" That is true no longer, in fact, many places are much better for a working class family, but we are stuck here, if only a high school education. None of the great euro countries would want us, plus it is cold. I think there is a chance to make a lot of money if one stays healthy and doesn't get caught up in the biggest health care scam in the world, (OURS)... has nothing to do with Obama, it is the money grubbing insurance, bio, and Doctors that are way overcharging as if their service and time is valued in Bullion.
One has to wonder what actually happens in 5 or 10 years. The next 3 - 4 we are going to pretend that it will all be ok...

 

After the great depression things were put in place to prevent the RICH from becoming richer, snowballed perfectly after WWII because so many came home. Perfect utopian society that played out well. When Reagan changed the tax laws and talked about lesser gov't. it played right into the greed of so many.
When there is a reg. LAW, people don't break it for 30 years, the rich step in and say (why do we need that reg / law ?) makes sense, then again it doesn't because it didn't get broke, because it was in place. People at the working class level have very little to do with which regs. laws are in place. Other than to champion what someone is willing to pay for the info to become a commercial, poster, news. That is what we have so much of today and the republicans got it all covered. Dodd / Frank and the other regs. are there to prevent the rich from ripping us off, once gone, things will go back to the rich stealing even more, as if there is anything left. W will drop another 10% in home ownership and healthcare will be nothing.
It is all pure greed and the investment bank type, like Icahn, the FED, and others are to blame. THey can never get enough and it steals right from the bottom, not directly of course. You can use his leverage against Netflix as a prime example. In the end, his 800M profit over 10 months costs consumers money. So will net neutrality and they wont be happy until it is like a movie of the future. THere is ten movies and you can take parts of each one to develop the world of tomorrow... Everyone rents everything and life is just about surviving a decent living for 99.5%. Very few in between people. That is unless the crush the rich with a super tax or pre 1984 of 63% for the 1% and 15% for everyone below 250K a year. other than that, just downhill for the next 50 years or until a revolution.
Try talking about a reality like that and everyone thinks you are nutz. In 1980 if you said someday, 15% of the country wont be able to get healthcare, people thought you were nutz...
Glad I trade stocks, gold, etc... Otherwise i would be locked into the working class too.... Love swing biotechs that have zero revenue... Perfect swing...

 

You said that the USG had previously diverted all the revenue flowing into failed government healthcare programs to vested healthcare accounts controlled by America's workers. When was that actually done in the past?

I can't find an example of it ever being done.

 

Of course a free market can bring about positive things. Who is claiming otherwise.

Gov't often produces positive things democracy or otherwise. Your claim in relation to Gov't is demonstrably false and further, it is a well established principle that the most efficient form of Gov't is benevolent dictatorship.