The Ideal Christian Society Is Communist

There's nothing voluntary about being forced into such a model. I'd note, also, that there is dire punishment for those who choose, in, say, a smaller community, to break away from the larger. The state "commune" controls what the people do through police powers and it's not just economic control, but control of other peaceful behaviors that can lead some to be put in cages for violations. Can you name anywhere in the Bible that Jesus suggested that peaceful people be put into cages for violating the terms of the commune, or, in other words, that perceived evil be countered with violence?

 

Sure.
God struck down two members for lying to the leadership about turning over the entirety of their earnings. Dead on the spot.

 

Ok, where did the "from each according to their ability" come from? God is the provider, not men. If all things are provided automatically, no men of ability are needed. In fact, why would there be any "need" in heaven if the men there are immortal? This whole line of reasoning on your part contradicts what is allegedly known about the nature of heaven and it's inhabitants.

 

Not as long as you don't start worshipping profit instead of God and as long as you don't exploit others, such as your employees, for the sake of profit. Unfortunately both are rather common in today's capitalism. So while profit may not be evil as such, it can certainly tempt people to become evil for the sake of it.

 

And what do you propose that a follower of Jesus do to oppose these evils of capitalism?

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Sounds like God's prerogative. Are you presuming to judge in the place of God?

 

Not at all. I'm answering the question you asked.
I take it you don't like it finding out that something exactly like you assumed didn't exist was a rather well known part of what you consider to be holy scripture.

 

Actually, you never answered the question. God struck them down, according to the Bible, but did Jesus suggest that people do the same?

 

What objection can there be to a temporal and secular, Commune of Heaven on Earth?

 

That wasn't what you asked. You asked if Jesus had ever punished people for it. If you believe God and Jesus are one, then the answer is yes. You wondered if He ever put people in cages for it. He went one better. He executed them.

 

Well, some Christians tried/try to escape the temptations of capitalism by forming communes with an oath of poverty. In order to do that some, like Abbé Pierre for example, did what the young man in Mark 10:17-29 didn’t do: give up their inheritance and offering all their possessions to charity.

Unlike people like that I’m certainly not the best of Christians. I just try to run my business in ways that allow me to still face my own face in the mirror. Once I thought about having my employees co-owning it, but that wouldn't be practical in our case, even though I know of businesses where this model works. But I try to at least treat my employees well and to be fair to my customers and business-partners. In my eyes my business isn’t there to amass more and more profits, but to keep me and our employees going while providing good service to our neighbourhood. This way I certainly will never get filthy rich, but that’s not one of my aims in life. Leading a life that’s pleasing to God is.

 

Insist that morals be used for goodness and not badness whenever possible.

 

The Jamestown colony started out as 'socialistic; as in All sharing their agriculture et al, but it was on the verge of complete failure.

As not everyone was carrying their share in the work.

And so they started assigning land to the ppl, who then became 'vested' in their own success, and the colony turned around and prospered.

Land ownership, being vested with their own motivations, is what capitalism does promote...pure socialism is defeatism as to the motivation of man..capitalism is not perfect, but the best that's out there!!

 

You may be right, that capitalism promotes motivation for material things, and that can drive people to achieve material success.
But Jesus tells us that his Kingdom is not of this world. He warns us that where we place our treasure is where our hearts will also be, so the promotion of an unending desire of the material may not be the best expression of the Christ-like nature. The desire that every single person have a basic level of comfort, security, sustenance and support, as no doubt Heaven will provide, is a noble vision, and a different one. The "I" is sacrificed on the altar of the "we".

 

I guess they were not Roman enough in building, communally, a new colonia.

 

In a sense you may find your business become more profitable. Employee moral can boost productivity like nothing else. Getting a reputation as a good employer will also see you attract more motivated and harder working employees to your business. Clearly this reflects in the good and services you offer, and happy customers means a growing business.

 

If "I' means the suffering of the "we" than that is not Christian capitalism.

After spending 15 yrs as a corporate 'slave,' I and 3 other men (Christians) launched out and started our own small corp where we worked many more hours than the sometimes 70 hr/week 1/2 time paid salaried corp types, and enjoyed the work, felt fulfilled, and also 'shared out prosperity with those working for us---aka, ALL prospered!

And so being a small business owner, a farmer (another seeing the direct results of his labor) etc. is freedom and needs to be wisely managed just as being a wise steward does such.

Socialism does not motivate, but the opposite. It can enslave men and their minds into complacency and depress/squelch/ruin their spirits.

 

And yet some of the most successful economies and contented populations today are the Nordic socialist countries who have done very well avoiding the disastrous collapses many of the most capitalist countries have experienced in the last ten years.
How should we interpret that data?

The outrageous division of wealth in our country has shown that the "I" is served at the expense of the "we", in spite of whatever lovely effort you have made to go against the grain. Your example has not gained much traction as a national trend, just as it didn't when the industrialists owned the economy at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century. Greed rules when capitalism is unrestrained. The nature of man takes over, every time.

 

How would that work in a hypothetical, divine commune of Heaven?

 

The bottom line is: "Money is not the root of all evil, but the 'love' of money is."

Can a successful org have a concern for the benefit of the 'all' rather than just the 'self' and still be noble? it's not the $$$ as such, but the priorities and fairness of pay for performance that is important..as in "reaping the reward of one's labor."

 

Well the Nordic countries are social democracies rather than socialist countries. Australia has had a similar experience with the economy yet we are generally acknowledged as being a lot further to towards a capitalist model than the Sweden etc.

 

Agreed.
Unfortunately, the voluntary division of the wealth of a corporation is massively skewed and getting worse.
You are making a case that a capitalist company can operate with Christian spirit. No one questions that.
Capitalism isn't a company. It's a system, and that system does not encourage the distribution of spoils you suggest your company pursues, and the division of the wealth in this country resoundingly demonstrates that truth.
You can't defend a system by showing an example within it that bucks the tide. I applaud you, but to imagine that model as being even modestly influential in the bigger picture simply goes against every metric we can look at.

 

I've been to Europe 3 times in my life and have not seen the 'industry' of their populations.

Of course there are exceptions but the area is somewhat stagnant and has become godless in their spiritual condition. They are not the place that we industrious, God-loving folk shud emulate! And they are presently showing us what their style of socialism is producing...not very noble as I see it!

Plus, as all socialism thru out history, it may have some immediate benefits and success, but long term it is a failed ideology and ends miserably....we will see their 'experiment' with it vs, 'our' great experiment' in this country..

 

You are right, but the operating principle is that we are only as great as the least of us. Australia maintains a huge commitment to the greater good as well, and has not flirted with the austerity theories that have absolutely crippled some of the european capitalist countries.
All countries have a blended economy. All.
But all countries are made up of 90% workers as well, so a system that wholeheartedly supports that majority seems to make a great deal of sense to me.

 

But I'm not one to 'throw the baby out with the bath water' and many would do.

Pure Greed Capitalism is wrong just as is Pure Passive Socialism is also the other perverted extreme.

 

Since States and statism can be considered a "collective" and that form of socialism, how can it be worse than the private sector, as a not for profit, body politic?