The phased plan for Israel's destruction

Just as most of us learned what racism actually is, what consistency is and what hypocrisy is. Most of us.

 

Israel was a response to zionistic aspirations of the 18th and 19th centuries, not the holocaust.

The arab muslims are welcome to try, as are the persian filthy regime. They will learn what their flesh tastes like when it reaches 10 million degrees.

It is astounding, that in 2015 with so much information available on the web, that there are still people who ignore the whole, broad monstrous and heinous behaviour of the arab muslims, who have destroyed hundreds of civilizations, and ethnically cleansed millions of non-muslims out of the mideast - up to an including today - yet still whine endlessly about Israel. Incredible.

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Who are you speaking for? Who do you think you are speaking for? I am not even f--king jewish, and my former unit and I would be flying on transports there in minutes. Stop pretending you speak for anyone but yourself.

 

Zionism did not exist until the end of the 19th century and only decided on Palestine as a site for a Jewish state at the beginning of the 20th century, but I am sure that historical fact will not bother you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl
Since you insist on being given a history lesson, understand that the majority of Jews had no interest in Zionism until the Holocaust, indeed many of the strongest and most respected Jewish religious leaders who died in the Holocaust were vehemently anti-zionist. The western world was very sympathetic to the survivours of the Holocaust and it is doubtful whether the present state of Israel would of come into being without the Holocaust. Maybe that is why the German Zionists made pacts with Hitler and did so little to oppose him.

If as you allude you are a military person then look on a map and see what a poor defensive position Israel is located in. Sure she might be able to fry a few million with nukes but she would destroy her self at the same time. Maybe that is some bizarre form of winning in your mind!

It is astounding, that in 2015 with so much information available on the web, that there are still people who have a complete lack of knowledge of history!

 

If it's so bad over here, why have Jews been flooding in here for over a century. You can't swing a dead cat in New York or LA without hitting a couple Jews. Get a grip.

 

I've always found that the most arrogant people claiming how knowledgeable they are, are the ones most lacking in history.

Are you claiming that zionism began with Herzl, or that the jews did not want to rebuild their nation in judea and samaria until the 20th century? You need to learn about the jewish religion, dear. The jews have been trying to re-create their nation IN ISRAEL for oh, about 2,000 years.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about the jewish religion, or its theories.

Sadly for arab muslim pro-terror apologists like yourself, the arab muslims form the weakest armies on earth, which is why KSA, Qatar, the GCC and such are so dependent upon the US to counter countries like iran. Israel has won EVERY one of its wars decisively, and with their increasing tech and capabilities, the only way they could lose to the arabs would be for them to surrender or run out of bullets before the arab muslims run out of bodies to shoot. Neither is likely anytime soon.

 

Majority of Jews live in Diaspora, but always can go to Israel if they become prosecuted. Something they could not do in the 40s and 60% of the population got wiped out.

 

most Diaspora Jews value human rights.

so yes, if Israel committed ethnic cleansing, against millions of innocent people, we would abandon them to their fate

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especially when folks call for genocide and ethnic cleansing

 

What nonsense. There would be no Israel if it weren't for European antisemitism.

 

this is 100% a fact.

if Europe was reletively tolerant of Jews, with no pogroms and Holocaust after 1900, there would have been no Israel nor a need for it.

 

Hasn't that lesson be lost on 80% (I don't know the exact percentage) of the world's Jews who live outside Israel? What makes the insiders special?

Seems to me you're counting on that nowadays, in both directions.

 

The only thing I need to say to you is go look up the term: "next year in Jerusalem", and see how long it has been a part of judaism. Good luck, dear.

 

Your quite right, clearly you have no idea what we have been discussing from that comment. Suggest you look up Zionism before discussing the topic again.

 

"All of a sudden you give a crap about mass slaughter? Are other genocides also an issue for you, or just the one by jews that you conjured in your mind? Like the ones being currently perpetrated by the arab muslims against the yazidis? Oh that's right, no jews involved, got it...."
No one supports ISIS"s genocide with a Western coalition(along with Arab countries) since last year launching constant air strikes against ISIS. Arguably more could be done but that's not the same as doing nothing. Human rights and international law needs to be respected by all countries Israel within green lines for most part respects it; in West Bank it doesn't.

"And those same morons ignore the abject racism of the 22 arab muslim nations, who have excelled in ethnically cleansing their non-muslim minorities - which you refuse to acknowledge. Pathetic."
Beside what's said above applies;. Israel isn't an Arab country nor is it Russia(as much as its extreme right wants to model its NGO laws after it). A rough analogy that Israel can commit human right violations and violate international law because Arabs do it more; would be if town next door is constantly killing and raping people while another town demolishing homes, members of in middle of town destroying crops of people in town that have different ethnicity/ and or assaulting them constantly sometimes ending in killing them (between 2005-2011 24 Arabs residing in West Bank were killed by settlers in shooting and vehiclar attacks). While one town is wrong and committing human right violations on a worst scale. The other town is still acting immoral
http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/32678

Ronstar
"so non-Jews shouldn't care about the fate of Jews?"
"And when have they? "
Non-Jews have cared about the fate of Jews post WW2 with West supporting Israel intially with France Israel's closest and then United States after JFK and Lyndon Johnston along with most anti semitism ending in the West after WW2.

Ronstar
"if Israel commits ethnic cleansing, the USA will turn its back on Israel."
"After all of the terrorism israel has endured, I don't think so. You'd like to think you speak for anyone but yourself, but sadly for you, you really don't. "
If Israel did commit ethnic cleansing everyone(in the West at least) would stop supporting Israel. That's a fact. Ethnic cleansing is a war crime and no Western country including United States wants to support that.

Ronstar
if israel committed ethnic cleansing, Diaspora Jews would be forced to abandon Israel
"Who are you speaking for? Who do you think you are speaking for? I am not even f--king jewish, and my former unit and I would be flying on transports there in minutes. Stop pretending you speak for anyone but yourself. "
Anyone who has morals wouldn't support Isreal committing ethinc cleansing, it would also spark a wider regional Arab war which they would likely not survive; for example Egpyt alone has 80 million people around 10 to 1 ratio just from one country compared to Israel.

"Majority of Jews live in Diaspora, but always can go to Israel if they become prosecuted. Something they could not do in the 40s and 60% of the population got wiped out."
If Jews committed ethinc cleansing like Oxymoron proposes why would Jews go from countries that they have equal rights in(since most are in the West) that are safe to a country committing ethnic cleansing and to a country fighting a wider regional Arab war they would probably lose.

Lastly it's important to point out this is a hypothetical scenario that oxymoron proposed not the actual situation which is creeping annexation which Israeli governments(unlike Oxymoron most Israelis aren't Kahnists either) prefers since there is little cost to it.

 

No need to, and the last person I'd look for advice from on jewish matters is an arab muslim. Stick to your falsification of history, I'm just not that into hearing about it.

 

Again you are wrong, not Muslim not an Arab, keeps living in your fantasy world, you are too funny! Here educate yourself about history from The Jewish Virtual Library, perhaps they know a little more than you!

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/isdf/text/Maor.html

 

Israel will have to make plans for withdrawal.

 

This is the difference between someone like you who gets their tidbits of facts from internet sites, and someone like me who actually knows WTF I am talking about.

The POLITICAL, european-based movement to re-create Israel gained momentum in the late 1800s, BUT the RELIGIOUS and nationalistic goals to live in Israel are well, about SIX THOUSAND YEARS OLD, as reflected in the judaic texts.

Which is why had you spent a day in your life actually talking to a REAL JEW like I have, you'd have learned that the POLITICAL MOVEMENT called zionism is merely an outgrowth of a desire to live in Israel that gathered momentum in the late 1800s europe - the core homeland of the jews - since the religion was founded SIX THOUSAND years ago.

But you keep pretending you are "knowledgeable" with your website tidbits...

From YOUR source:

"The main premise of Zionist ideology was that the solution for a viable Jewish communal existence in modern times could be implemented only in Eretz Israel. Eretz Israel, the land in which the identity of the Jewish people had originally formed, constituted a continuous component within the Jewish collective consciousness. It was the only place in which a Jewish collective entity and environment could be reconstructed, and the only place in which the Jews could reenter history and become a productive, normal and unified community, responsible for its own destiny."

 

We are talking about Zionism, if you want to change the subject do so but stop pretending you knew what you were talking about, it looks now like you do not even understand the difference between the late 18th century and late 1800s. Still it explains alot.

You will also note how my evidence is backed with sources whereas you just keep telling us that you, and you alone know what you are talking about(although in one way there is some truth in this)

You spent a whole day with a Jew did you, wow, I (*)(*)(*)(*)ing live with one!

 

Which is the POLITICAL manifestation of the religious goal of living as a jew in israel, which has existed since the jewish religion was founded.

That it gained MOMENTUM as a political goal in the late 1800s does not mean it did not exist prior, it simply means that it was politically impossible to attain until then.

Your lack of understanding of the jewish religion is what is preventing you from grasping that the emergence of political zionism in the 1800s is a mere extension of the longing of all jews to live in israel.

The alternative and false narrative you are projecting is that up until the 1800s, jews did not want to live in Israel, or were not committed to doing so, until "zionism" appeared on the scene, which is patently false.

I do not need to pretend anything, my knowledge foundation is bedrock solid, ask any rabbi - they will laugh at your nonsensical comments.

Which do not negate my points, they strenghten them.

Congratulations, now go ask them when the goal of jews to live in Israel began - if they have a clue they will know it was way, way before 1870...

 

#1. it is a FACT that Jewish tradition believes that ther Jews are under a Godly order of exile or Galut, until the Messiah comes and brings world peace

#2. it is a FACT that it is Jewish tradition that the Jews may not have soverignty over Palestine again, until the Messiah comes.

#3. its a FACT that if not for the Holocaust, there would have been no Israel.

 

After the Holocaust, traditional rabbinical scholarship revisited this issue, and opted to re-evaluate and alter this belief. They decided that jews could now return to Israel given the magnitutde of the number of jews killed in the Holocaust, and that the previous tenets about having to wait for the messiah no longer applied. This change was accepted by all three major denominations, outside of a handful of extremist groups, who remain anti-zionist. Interestingly enough, even large portions of those anti-zionist groups live in Israel, so their credibility on the topic leaves, well, much to be desired.

Possibly, but this does not negate several items:

1-that jews seeked a return to live in their homeland well before the political movement of zionism appeared on the scene in the 1800s
2-jews had already been working on the political front to re-establish the nation of Israel, and had received support from the British and even Abraham Lincoln to do so, well before the Holocaust.

 

As I have written before you simply do not know what Zionism is, and how you think that your ramblings are strengthened by lack of any evidence or sources is simply silly. You have bored me long enough, when you have a knowledge of Zionism perhaps you can discuss the subject. Try reading the source I provided you from the Jewish Virtual Library, whether you will need to ask questions to understand I cannot know Perhaps you might understand the Messianic roots of Judaism compared to the Nationalistic roots of Zionism.

Meanwhile to help you on the way here is a quote from a Rabbi to help you begin to understand,

Rabbi Zelig Reuven Bengis, Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem

We have already spoken about these nationalists. They are a recently-founded group with the purpose of fooling the people and leading the masses astray, thinking that they can settle the Holy Land by natural means and attain sovereignty over it. They are mistaken and they are swindlers, and their plan will not succeed. (Liflagos Reuven, Drashos, Chanukah 5672, p. 331)

 

At last three pages and you finally got there, now if you can just understand why Zionism is not the same as the Messianic wish to return to Israel......

 

Despite your juvenile and personal attacks, you've achieved nothing.

I noticed how you moved the goal posts, first claiming that "zionism began in the 1870s" to now admitting it began much earlier. As I repeatedly stated, the desire for jews to return to live in Israel long predates the 1870s, and the zionistic movement merely brought what was purely a religious aim into the political sphere. Your continuance of arguing that jews did not seek to live in Israel prior to the emergence of zionism is ludicrous nonsense.

As for your quote, that rabbi is anti-zionist and an extremist, and of no interest to me or anyone else in the mainstream. I will not engage in besmirching a dead man's reputation, but the fact that he lived in Jerusalem while being anti-zionist does not lead one to embrace his claims or credibility.

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Oh, please enlighten us, oh learned master of the torah and all things judaic, it's astounding the jews managed to survive 6,000 years without your expertise.