The Psychology Behind LGBT

Most people more bisexual than they let on, I don't consider this surprising.

 

Effeminate young boys apparently. Again, what's interesting is when people bring up cultures like this, they're bringing up cultures that practices forms of pedophilia, and they project that on men who are attracted to men - but of all of these cultures that I've ever heard of, men who are attracted to men is just as uncommon. Across cultures today where we have the data available, the rate of homosexual people attracted to other adults of the same sex is practically equal, regardless of that cultures aversion or acceptance of homosexuality.

 

He prefers men. A homosexual. He identifies himself as a homosexual. Preferences can change over time. I bet if Pamela Anderson were to grab his Johnson and beg him to take her now, he could be converted.

 

You assume this applies to everyone. You have an anecdote of a bisexual, regardless of how he specifically labels it.

 

Homosexuality is a preference for sex with someone of the same sex. There is no age qualification.

 

Nope, just a suprisingly large # of them. I dont know many gay people but most of them I do know in their 40s or 50s, used to be married to women.

 

True, but that doesn't mean that there are differences in epidemiology for subsets within the group. That is fallacious reasoning. There can be many different reasons for the behavior.

 

And many different reasons for their preferences

 

Well, ya, society tells you're your sick and diseased if you're homosexual enough, that you're an abomination before God and going to hell, will be disowned by your family and prosecuted by the law - ya, , most of these men will suppress or never acknowledge homosexual attractions and will get married. Again, social pressure and culture CAN influence your homosexual and heterosexual behavior, I didn't say otherwise. If that is the only standard by which you measure whether someone is homosexual and heterosexual, then you are absolutely correct, society, culture, and nurture can make you homosexual or heterosexual.

But that's not what people such as myself are generally talking about. We're referring to underlying motivations that may exist largely indepant of socialization, people's preferences where society is not pushing them one way or the other. And we do have a fair amount of information about this. Twin studies, where twins are separated at birth: If one twin is gay, the other is 3+ times more likely to be gay also. We have the standard rate of homosexual attraction of people to other adults of the same sex across cultures regardless of their aversion or acceptance of said homosexuality. We have the fact that even in places like Sambia, common practices of pedophilia are NOT demonstrated to translate into homosexual attraction between adults. We have the fact that children raised by homosexual parents end up homosexual/heterosexual themselves at the same rate as the general population. Studies of the brains of homosexual show abnormal development in dimorphic parts of the brain largely responsible for sex drive and impulses. We know homosexual males respond physiologically similar to male pheromones in a way consistant to how women usually do so. We know that abnormal hormonal balances in utero, which can be brought on by direct hormone injection or by stressing the mother, can cause their young to behave with sexual behavioral patterns akin to the opposite gender in lab animals that were tested, which does not prove, but is consistent with theories of hormonal imbalances as a cause in humans - this knowledge supports the Twin studies, the studies that found differences in brain development, and birth-order studies.

So while your anecdotes are interesting, they are not the only facts to consider in this case, and they may even be largely irrelevant in the study of attraction between adults, as opposed to ritualized forms of pedophilia in the Sambia tribe. There is no indication that the epidemiology is linked, and in fact that consistently low rates of homosexual attraction between adults even in such cultures is an indication of very different epidemiology.

 

Agreed. Not all homosexual behavior is created and explained alike.

 

And if society tells you homosexual relationships are desirable, some men will suppress their heterosexual attractions and be homosexual.

What makes you think our attractions are any less a product of our culture? Im sure a Sambia man believes his attractions are just as inherent immutable trait as you do. Would probably see our heterosexuality as product of our culture.

 

I'm saying the terms are confusing. It's both a subculture and something more biological, and I think we need two different words, because we can't really have the conversation without figuring out which is what without being able to separate the culture from the biological stuff. I'm not sure if I worded that exactly right, but it's the same sort of thing as assuming that all black people like hip hop because it's black music, and then trying to explain the difference between a "black thing" and a "black thing" while using the exact same word. It's conufsing, especially for us muggles.

I think we're actually running in the same direction here ... stupid English makes it possible to be gay without being gay and call yourself gay, then people get all confused.

The only reason I'm talking about what it means to me is so you know where I'm coming from. If we can't have a common definition of words, there's no point in talking about what the psychology of gay is. If I'm thinking about pride parades, pink and leather and you're thinking about a guy taking a guy out for a steak dinner. Then I say I'm not down with the whole culture and you're thinking I mean relationships, when I think leather dog collars look stupid. We need more words or better words, or words that better discribe what is being talked about. I try to be honest in where I come from in a debate like this because otherwise, it tends to wind up with everyone talking past each other and no actual conversation taking place while everyone gets offended -- or they all get offended and stop talking altogether, or are afraid to start talking because a random misunderstanding means that we'll start name calling. Gotta love the interwebs, we've got nothing on Mos Eisley.

Well I'm not disagreeing with you, but some things seem almost tangental. It's like all straight people suddenly deciding to talk like Dirty Harry and love James Bond. Or all black people suddenly liking the color blue. That's not a relationship at all, it's got nothing to do with it. So as I said, I think a lot of that is cultural -- you do it because other gay people do it. And nothing wrong with that. But it's hard to tell all of this from the outside. I'm looking in, all I can see is what is on display, all I can know is what people tell me. Which is why I think we should be somewhat careful to define what we actually see rather than talking about what we think should be. Observe first.

hopefully.

 

Probably

I already gave you numerous examples, and beyond that the fact that our culture historically has NOT promoted homosexuality, my family included, yet it happened anyway - at a similar rate as anywhere else in the world. Certainly there is cultural influence on homosexual behavior, but if you look at the large paragraph between the two parts of my post that you quoted, I answered your question.

 

Well the trash that is presented as science in America finds new lows ,

All human sexuality falls in the definitions of SCIENCE ,the one we Educated people call Biology ,the Humans that Have Testes are called MALE ,the Humans that Have Ovaries are called Female ,those that do not have either Neuter>

Intersex is a medical condition and not a sex.

what Sex one is or is not Is determined at Birth and is objectively determined out side "your personal feelings " on the subject,what you are saying is called Pusedo-Science from the school of Subjective Idealism whether you think so or not is irrelevent.As you say correctly .

transgender people are all either Homosexual ,Bisexual or hetrosexual from birth Objectively determined and not a choice ,Transgender is a Medical condition that can be corrected by surgury,with gender reassignment.Transgender is Not a sexuality.intersex is also a medical condition not a sexuality.

As far as "Gay and lesbian are concerned ,they are POLITICAL CONSTRUCTS ,denoting a Political movement of the Middle class Radical feminist and the corresponding Gay rights political movement ,the GBLT which in fact is the GL Political rights movement for Midlle class radicals who go by the name of the Socialist alliance and Socialist action [Nothing scientific or socialist about them ]psuedo -scientific and Psuedo- Socialist ,nay Anti-Scientific and Anti-Socialist Political movements ,of the most hostile to the Working class type.


So Scientific Biological definitions attempted to be confused for political purposes.

The sexual orientation or" sexuality" for the scientifically minded ,that swings "in Both directions " is defined as BISEXUAL,our phillistine Politicans of the GBLT call it incorrectly MSM or WSW ,Men who have sex with men and women who have sex with women ,sorry to burst that stupidity as all men have sex with men and women with women ,its called the sexual act of MASTURBATION !

The term MSM ,is applied to the question of Hiv\Aids as a Populisation and abrieviation to group both Homosexuals and Bisexuals who are the highest risk group of HIV in society ,but are not scientific definitions.And extremely rarely used in scientific papers .

Gay is NEVER used in scientific litrature as it is a POLITICAL definition of historically formed middle class protest groups,presently advocating for "Gay marriage " for instance ,please note they are not calling for Homosexual marriage rights ,as then the Feminist LESBIAN ,political movement would oppose it on the basis of Marriage being a Patriacal Institution for the suppression of women .

GAY MARRIAGE RIGHTS <it is never GAY and Lesbian Marriage rights "now is IT!?

The political formations Known as Socialist Alliance is centred around the Psuedo-Marxist group called the Internation Socilaist Orgainisation ,please feel free to look them up and you will find "Gay Rights "thats Political thinking not Biology is central to their political outlook and activities .

This grouping is hostile to science and therefore to Marxism .

So in short ,homosexual ,Bisexual hetrosexual is Human sexual orientations or Sexualities ,Whereas 'Gay and lesbian are POLITICAL CONSTRUCTS of a Middle class radical protest politics Nature .

One is Born with ones sexuality ,whereas one Chooses ones Politics.

BTW,before the advent of Hiv\Aids ,the GBLT didn't exist anywhere in the World ,gee lovely people those that use a deadly disease as their Political Brand ,sick and putrid to use Human suffering for ones political formation.In Australia one has to break thru these political layers to get help for Hiv\Aids ,I know as I was diagnosed with Hiv \Aids and nearly died in 2009!

If you want me to relate the stinking nature of these folk that still believe that the" H"in HIV means Homosexual not HUMAN,no problem ,its good that I am now on the Correct Medications that stop progression from Hiv to Aids and restores the immune system.

Last year 4 humans died of Aids in Australia only because they got to hospitial to late.

Oh millions are still dying in Africa ans Asia because they don't get a pill known as TRAVADA> ,As I say a Travada a day keeps AIDS away ,4 years now and still alive ,without dead in 9months,funny world hey!

 

...Anyone want to tell me what the hell I just read?

Sexuality is a scientific construct. It's NOT JUST GENDER.

 

The separation of sexuality from procreation entails its freedom from heterosexuality and its emergence as an individual attribute, something individuals can develop, enjoy, change or project as part of their changing definition of the self. Sexuality becomes plastic because the self itself has broken the bounds of traditional institutional expectations and it is now free to constitute and reconstitute itself in a series of narratives answering to nothing else but the growing freedom of individuals to develop their potential
http://www.colorado.edu/Sociology/gimenez/work/GIDDENS.TXT

 

Which in no way establishes that it isn't or can't be biologically driven.

 

Still directly contradicts the post I quoted and was responding to.

 

If you think you can place human sexuality in a BOX of your choosing... you don't really know what it is.

 

Prove that would happen, to any substantial or even detrimental degree.

That is an amazing CLAIM.

Science can tell people exponentially MORE about human sexuality, than this BS you are propagating here.

You are obsessed with what is going on in Sambia; maybe you need to carry your ass there and bone-up on the actual happenings.

 

LOLOLOLOL!!!! You are truely clueless. Just a big writhing ball of ideology. YOU are the one so desparately trying to fit your homosexuality into a box.

 

You quoted a brief review of a book, which itself does not claim to what extent sexuality is biologically driven, just that the social requirements (or reduction there of) allow one to explore their own sexuality more. So no, your source does not contradict the claim that you're "born that way", if you can count a review of a book as a source worthy of contradicting anything in the first place. A review of a book on an unmaintained website of a random, retired colorado university professor.... did you just do a key-word search on google to bring that up? I have no idea how else you would have come across that. Nevertheless, even assuming the review is a fair representation and condensation of the book in its whole, it doesn't back up your claim.

 

No, I'm right and you just don't buy it.

Just keep laughing.

I disagree.

 

No, to CHANGE their sexuality, DIRECTLY contradicting the quoted post. Ancient Greece didnt have more men born homosexual. They became homosexual in a culture that endorsed the behavior.

 

Nonsense! This

Is not putting homosexuality in a box. It dismantles the cast iron box youve created to put your homosexuality into.