The Republicans gave it their best shot . . .

quite the contrary, the GOP should just sit on the sidelines and watch obama destroy the economy, then in 2016 say 'I told you so'. Let obama go wild with his marxist programs to spend us into financial oblivion, let him destroy our economy, our culture, and our national reputation.

2016 will be an overwhelming victory for conservatism. Or a 'mandate' as my buddy dujac likes to say.

 

This is literally what you guys said in 2008. You spent the past four years obstructing every single thing Obama tries to pass and then blame it all on him when it harms the country.

You tried that strategy and the American people saw through the BS. 2016 will be as overwhelming for conservatives as 2008 was. Democrats will likely take the House by 2016, retain control of the Senate, and put Hillary Clinton in the White House.

 

The Dems do the same thing in exchange for MSNBC media bias as the Reps do for Fox and Limbaugh media bias. Murdoch and Limbaugh are big boys. They can buy all the media bias they want and are doing so. Our media bias is just more effective than your media bias, probably because people find it a little more 'believable'.

I wish there was less bias, but there is no way to control it unless you're willing to send liars to prison.

 

Your own self interest aside, raising taxes worked great in 1993. Surplus budget and they never cut overall spending a dime.

Year - Rev - Spend - Deficit/surplus
1992 1,091.3 1,381.7 -340.4
1993 1,154.4 1,409.5 -300.4 <- Tax hike
1994 1,258.6 1,461.9 -258.8
1995 1,351.8 1,515.8 -226.4
1996 1,453.1 1,560.5 -174.0
1997 1,579.3 1,601.3 -103.2
1998 1,721.8 1,652.6 -29.9
1999 1,827.5 1,701.9 +1.9
2000 2,025.2 1,789.0 +86.4

 

apples and oranges, but you knew that. How about stopping the partisan rhetoric and explain how the economy will be saved by a tax increase that will pay the govt's bills for 8 days?

 

sooner or later the american people will wake up to the mistake that is obama. It may very well be too late and we will become a larger version of Greece.

But enjoy your victory, enjoy the marxism you voted for, enjoy the $4 gas, enjoy 8% unemployment, enjoy an ever increasing number of people in poverty and on food stamps. Its what you and obama want---a population that are slaves to the almighty govt. enjoy it fools, you asked for it.

 

that just shows how out of touch with reality you are



Why We Aren't Like Greece

Dean Baker - August 10, 2011


“What’s the difference between the United States and Greece?” should be the setup line for a joke. Unfortunately, it’s a question that seems to be stumping many of the people involved in Washington policy debates. Now that Standard & Poor’s has downgraded the US government’s credit rating (along with that of government-controlled mortgage behemoths Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and other entities), the policy-wonk community is likely to find this question even trickier.

The problems faced by the Greek economy—and now, through contagion, perhaps the entire eurozone—are nothing like the problems facing the US economy. However, people with a clear political agenda are doing their best to confuse the public and claim that a crisis created by the collapse of the housing bubble is really a crisis of excessive government spending. Their goal is to gut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and they are prepared to use their money and their influence over the media to achieve it.

The analogy to Greece is a farce from the word go. Greece had chronic deficits even in the good years. Its debt-to-GDP ratio was rising in the years before the crash, when its economy was experiencing strong growth. It now has a debt-to-GDP ratio approaching 150 percent. By contrast, in the United States, even with the Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Medicare prescription drug benefit, the debt-to-GDP ratio was stable during the housing bubble years. It is now just above 60 percent.

The second key difference between Greece and the United States is that we borrow in our own currency. At the end of the day, if we cannot tax or borrow the money needed to pay our bills, we can print it. That may not be pretty (it could lead to inflation), but as long as our debt is denominated in dollars we will never have the IMF dictating terms to us.

However, the most important difference is that the United States is a huge, diversified economy. If we ever saw the flight from the dollar that the deficit hawks threaten, it would be terrifying—to our trading partners. Suppose the dollar fell so that there were $2 to a euro, or it took $1.50 to buy a Canadian dollar. The US market for imports of European and Canadian goods would collapse, and our exports (we still export more than $1 trillion a year) would be hyper-competitive in Europe and Canada, seizing large chunks of their domestic markets.

http://www.thenation.com/article/162671/why-we-arent-greece#




The United States Is Not Greece

Further, history shows many examples of high levels of debt not causing problems when circumstances are different (for example, in Japan today or the U.S. after World War II). A sign that debt problems are becoming economic problems occurs when the interest rates on a country’s debt rise. This indicates that investors are nervous about default and demand a premium to hold this debt. Of course, rising interest costs make the problems worse and put more pressure on the affected country.

Most countries that face rising interest costs on their debt will see the value of their currency decline. But, as a member of the European Monetary Union (EMU), Greece does not control its own currency (whose value of the euro by Germany and France). The United States has its own currency and its own monetary policy.

Not only does the U.S. have its own currency, its debt is denominated in dollars. Over the past three decades, many people have predicted that foreigners would stop buying our debt, or at least demand higher interest rates for the extra risk of currency devaluation. But this has not happened. Instead, when the world financial crisis exploded, investors flocked to US debt, driving rates down to very low levels. Repeatedly the market has disagreed with prognosticators of doom for the US.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/30/the-united-states-is-not-greece/



Why the United States Is Not Greece

What follows is a self-defense lesson on why the United States is not Greece—or Europe. The U.S. economy is far larger and more productive than Greece. The United States has many more tools in its macro-economic policy box than countries in the eurozone. And while calls for austerity have kept the United States from undertaking government spending and investment large enough to support a robust economic recovery, at least thus far, the United States hasn’t undertaken the same self-defeating austerity measures Europe has.

http://dollarsandsense.org/archives/2012/0112millersciacchitano.html

 

Great response. So in other words, the USA can DEVALUE its currency (by intimidating or bribing Ben Bernanke) to nothingness like the USSR in 1998 because it is autonomous and does not need approval from "Germany or France"? I've seem some doozy mathematical proofs and this is up there with the least influential.

 

Bernanke thinks he can print money on an unrestricted basis and nevertheless avoid the fate of Weimar Germany. Bernanke is gambling. I hope everyone realizes that this is a roll of the dice.

 

who are y'all talking to?

 

If the shoe fits?

 

what national currency is superior to the u.s. dollar?

 

So said the the Morlock in a time machine?

 

oh look, science fiction

 

I have seen those, Du. All they conclude is that the size of our economy will allow us to continue the stupidity longer than Greece. Eventually the financial house of cards will collapse if the wild ass govt spending continues. Once the dollar becomes worthless, we are done.

 

what you've never allowed yourself to see is a clue about how economics works

 

Ah i see the people who "have a clue" have allowed us to be 16 trillion in debt and climbing with no way out.... Pure genius on those "clue" heavy people.

 

Oh, I see. You cannot compete in the debate so you throw in an insult---very typical of the left. If you cannot win then demonize the other side.

For the record, I have participated very successfully in the economics of the USA for over 40 years. I have made a lot of money, seen most of the world, done business in many countries, and am now retired very comfortably. I know how this country and the world work economically.

No business, corporation, state, or nation can continue to spend more than it takes in and survive. We are so large that it will take longer, but the end result is inevitable if we do not constrain spending. the Fed can print up as much worthless money as they want but eventually you have to pay the piper.

 

where, for instance?

what people?

i've been hearing that it's going to collapse for over 40 years

it was obviously all misinformation propaganda

 

If you don't like those things, why do you support the party that has put us on that path? Some peoples' completely inability to comprehend reality is disturbing.

The economy crashed under Bush. It has improved under Obama. There is no getting around that. If the economy had stayed the exact same over the past four years, we'd have 30% unemployment. Do we have 30% unemployment? Have we been losing 800,000 jobs a month like we were when Obama took office? No we are not.

 

Having experience in business does not make you an economic expert. That's evidenced by your complete lack of understanding of the economic situation over the past few years.

 

Nonsense. As I intimated before, the media is the mouthpiece for whoever pays them. Take some of your hard earned tax rebate cash and buy some media.

 

Where? the mid east--Bahrain, Kuwait, Israel, far east--Japan, Phillipines, Europe--UK, Germany, France, Italy, South america--Brazil, Austalia.

 

The economic situation over the last 40 years has declined due to government over spending and waste, both parties are guilty, the media is guilty for not telling the truth, and the american people are guilty for being ignorant about it. Its not a partisan issue. Its an economic issue, no govt can continue to spend in excess or income for ever. We have reached the tipping point.

Your attempts to paint this as a partisan issue just shows that you are as ignorant as more than half of the citizens in this country.