Trump and North Korea 2.0

That falsely assumes we can shoot down ever missile they launch, which we can't. Even under testing conditions, we only have a 50% success rate.

 

Right, so you recommend we do nothing.

Don't talk to me about diplomacy. That's gotten us nowhere in 20 years.

Don't talk to me about China and Russia. They enjoy our discomfort. They are hostile regimes. Why should they restrain an ally to help the U.S.? I can't think of a single reason.

Trump hasn't ordered the shoot down. He prefers doing nothing, too, while Kim and his generals laugh at us.

 

Actually I believe the only action we should take, unless NK starts a shooting war, is to keep increasing pressure on China, Iran, and Russia in an effort to starve them of everything. From food, to energy, to materials for missile construction.

 

Defense Secretary James N. Mattis said Monday that the U.S. military has not attempted to shoot down ballistic missiles test-launched by North Korea because they have not been on a trajectory to hit U.S. or allies’ territory.

So, Trump continues his policy of doing nothing. He has a serious problem with commitment. He wants to kill Kim with rhetoric.

In the meantime, Kim and his generals continue to press the envelope. Mattis said these launches are testing the U.S. military to see how much North Korea can get away with before triggering a response.

“They are intentionally doing provocations that seem to press against the envelope to see how far they can push without going over some kind of line in their minds that would make them vulnerable,” he told reporters at the Pentagon.

Haley said if disputes can’t be solved diplomatically, they could be handled by James (Mad Dog) Mattis, the secretary of Defense.

Yeah, right.

This would all be very funny if it weren't so damn maddening.

 

On our time, Sandy. We will take action on our time. Not Kim's time. There will be no knee-jerk reaction from a man like Gen. Mattis. F that!

 

It depends on the missile and the system used. For example, Since 2002, 37 tests have been carried out to intercept a mid-range missile with an SM-3 and 29 were successful.

An intermediate range missile has been used in recent tests, the ones that flew over Japanese air space.

When it comes to military matters, there are no guarantees. If one waits around for a guarantee, one gets passed by.

 

Right, Seth, we shoot down those missiles on our time.

 

That simply is not going to happen. Tell me, why should it? Why should those nations restrain an ally to help us? They like what NK is doing.

You sound like Trump. He has the same unrealistic dream.

Answer the two questions. I'm dying to hear it.

 

Well Seth....I think there will be coup and Rocket boy will be assassinated. I'm not sure who will do it, but I think it might be a mutual effort.

 

Like I said, "Barring some miracle ..."

 

So then there are no good options. As much as I would like to say shoot them down, the technology still isn't really ready. I believe it's only about 40% effective in controlled tests. I would assume it's about half that in less than ideal conditions and angles and timing.

Instead of being so mad at Trump for the current mess, that anger should be aimed at Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy. They are the ones that let this problem fester and intensify as they did nothing tok prevent it.

 

Right, all this will have a fairy tale ending.

 

You are right. There are no good options. As for accuracy, there is this.

Accuracy depends on the missile and the system used. For example, Since 2002, 37 tests have been carried out to intercept a mid-range missile with an SM-3 and 29 were successful.

An intermediate range missile has been used in recent tests, the ones that flew over Japanese air space.

When it comes to military matters, there are no guarantees. If one waits around for a guarantee, one gets passed by.

There is an element of truth to your last statement.

 

MRBM's fly a lot lower than IRBM's or ICBM's. The highest altitude the SM-3 has ever intercepted a target at is a little less than 150 miles. Each the last couple tests that have flown over Japan have done so at nearly 3 times that altitude.

 

As tensions continue to ratchet up with North Korea, CNN has learned that the US is considering shooting down a North Korean ballistic missile even if it does not directly threaten the US or its allies.

An official directly familiar with options planning within the Trump administration told CNN the question that now needs to be answered is whether North Korea's missile program has progressed to the level of being such an inherent threat that the Pentagon would recommend targeting a missile even if its trajectory did not indicate it would hit the US or its allies.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/us-north-korea-missile-mattis-options/index.html

 

If Sandy is a disappointed RINO who wanted kasich or bush then you could be right

But if Sandy is a diappointed Hillary or Bernie voter or a Tweener it would still be Game On!

Libs would bash the rino president just as harshly as they are attacking trump

And lets not forget the penis envy crowd overseas

They hate everything America does and they would not support US policy either even when it involves a rogue nation with nuclear weapons

 

And they'll likely miss or won't be able to take the shot at all.

 

We have to try. We can't keep doing nothing.

Despite Trump's tough words, he isn't going to do anything. He thinks all problems can be solved with rhetoric.

Somebody has to make a decision.

 

Why do we "have to try"? There are no real tangible benefits from shooting a rocket down and huge political downsides if we miss.

 

Exactly what I think. The propaganda benefits would give Kim even more national and international legitimacy as the man who beat America.


Enough of the criticism though. How about new ideas that are actually workable to prevent war. The only one I can co me up with is targeted and aggressive sanctions on Chinese and Russian banks and companies that work with NK.

 

Hey there, Marine ...

I think the only peaceful action that might work would be a full-on embargo of North Korea.

No fuel imports. No oil imports. No food imports (I know that sounds harsh). No exports. No commerce whatsoever. Total 100% isolation.

That might work. If the Russians and the Chinese actually enforced it, North Korea might be able to be forced to dismantle and end its nuclear program and submit to verification inspections.

I think the U.S. ought to call a meeting of the U.N. Security Council and propose it and force a vote, and I'll tell you why.

The Russians and the Chinese will oppose it. They don't want to do that. They have agreed to sanctions that still allow them to sustain North Korea at a level it can live with. That, of course, is the problem. It is not enough to get them to end their nuclear program.

But ...

If a full embargo is proposed - the harshest form of peaceful action that can be taken - the Russians and the Chinese will know that the U.S. will use their refusal to go along as a predicate for military action. They will know that the U.S. is asking for the last possible action that can be taken short of war. And they will know that if they refuse to vote for an embargo, the U.S. will believe that it has tried everything it can short of military action. They will know that their refusal to vote for an embargo will solidify U.S. resolve and actually hasten military action and whatever consequences that may bring. They will know that when military action is taken - and whatever outcome ensues - the U.S. will be able to point a finger of responsibility at them for not giving one last attempt at a peaceful resolution a try.

I don't claim to know, but perhaps there is a faint possibility that the Russians and the Chinese would make these calculations and vote for it.

So I think the U.S. should call the meeting, make the proposal, and get a vote up or down. The message to North Korea, the Russians, and the Chinese would be clear and unmistakable.

Seth

 

North Korea isn't going to start any war. Moves nukes into Guam and adopt a formal policy that for every ICBM North Korea deploys, we will deploy 3 interceptor missiles. Maintain overwhelming superiority.

 

Moving nukes to Guam does nothing. I do agree that we need to heavily increase the presence of all types of interceptor missiles to the region though.

I have a hard time agreeing that Trump should just do the easy thing and kick the can down the road again though. If any president over the last 50 years would have done something we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun now.

 

If Kim's scientists can't get the data on range and accuracy that they are looking for, North Korea will stop the tests. What would be the point if their missiles are being shot down? Besides, it's excellent training and we will learn a thing or two from our successes and our failures.

I call that a tangible benefit. The Pentagon is close to agreeing with me.

It's better than doing nothing.

 

They can't get that data anyways. It's not like these rockets are getting tracked all the way to their splash down by North Korea.

Every time we miss we will hand the NorK's a propaganda win on a silver platter.