Trump and North Korea 2.0

That is not necessarily true. Even a miss will cause concern Pyongyang. A policy of shooting down those missiles would give Kim and his generals something to think about. We know one thing for sure. Diplomacy isn't working and we can't expect any help from China and Russia. Trump's ham-handed approach and his moronic speech to the U.N. is hurting far more than it is helping. Once again and for the umpteenth time his advisors are telling us what he really meant. They have to be getting tired of doing that. They look and sound like fools.

The New York Times reports, "President Trump is now fully engaged in two nuclear confrontations, one with Iran over a nuclear accord he finds an “embarrassment” and the other with North Korea that is forcing the Pentagon to contemplate for the first time in decades what a resumption of the Korean War might look like.

"The dynamics of those cases are entirely different, but they are also oddly interdependent. If Mr. Trump makes good on his threat to pull out of the 2015 nuclear agreement with Iran, how will he then convince the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, that America will honor the commitment to integrate North Korea into the world community if only it disarms — the demand Mr. Trump made from the podium of the United Nations.

"The fiercest defenders of the Iran deal argue that Mr. Trump’s team has not thought about how his threats to Tehran resonate 4,000 miles away in Pyongyang, especially since Iran has held up its end of the agreement."

 

Trump claimed on Thursday that China, North Korea's principal trading partner, has ordered its banks to stop doing business with the rogue regime.

"I'm very proud to tell you that, as you may have just heard moments ago, China, their central bank has told their other banks — that's a massive banking system — to immediately stop doing business with North Korea," he said at the United Nations alongside South Korean President Moon Jae-in and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

The obvious question is whether or not that is true or is China simply offering a pretext of complying with U.N. sanctions as she has done so many times in the past. This is a very abrupt departure from previous policy, and even the President was surprised. We need to take a closer look.

China’s central bank has told banks to strictly implement United Nations sanctions against North Korea, four sources told Reuters. China’s central bank did not immediately respond to a request for comment. There has no been no announcement from the Chinese foreign ministry which normally handles issues related to North Korea. There has been no announcement from the Chinese press as one might expect from an important development such as this.

The only sources for this strategically important event is the Western media and Trump.

The sources said lenders were asked to fully implement United Nations sanctions against North Korea and were warned of the economic losses and reputational risks if they did not do so. The sources said banks were told to stop providing financial services to new North Korean customers and they are encouraged to begin severing ties with existing customers.

"Encouraged?" Not required?

The document directed banks to explain to any North Korean customers that “our bank is fulfilling our international obligations and implementing United Nations sanctions against North Korea. As such, we refuse to handle any individual loans connected to North Korea.”

Does that mean the government of North Korea can do business as usual?

The document did not specify whether existing North Korean account holders could still deposit or remove money from their accounts.

All this does not pass the smell test. Who are those four sources? Why haven't we heard a word of this from Chinese sources? I have made a comprehensive internet search. There is nothing on this issue from the Chinese government, Chinese a they are receiving from the ambassador, or the Chinese press.

That is odd for this reason. Chinese banks have come under scrutiny for their role as a conduit for funds flowing to and from China’s increasingly isolated neighbor. The Chinese government has been under pressure to comply with the U.N. sanctions. We are being led to believe that China suddenly has reversed itself and is now in compliance and the Chinese government prefers to keep this a secret?

One would think they would want to make a proud announcement to the world to relieve the pressure they are receiving from their trading partners, primarily the United States. If true, keeping this a secret makes no sense.

I could be wrong, but there are some important questions that need to be answered before we shout hallelujah.

 

This Nork Anchor is pretty excited about Rocket Boy's Last Launch:

 

THE EIGHT GRADE APPROACH TO A SERIOUS CRISIS

The schoolyard style of the dialogue between Trump and Kim started months ago, but was exacerbated by Trump's immature, personal, and bellicose remarks during his U.N. speech on Tuesday.

Trump, "The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime."

At first Kim acted like the adult on the schoolyard. "I'd like to advise Trump to exercise prudence in selecting words and to be considerate of whom he speaks to when making a speech in front of the world."

Kim later said that Trump would "pay dearly" for the threats, and that North Korea "will consider with seriousness exercising of a corresponding, highest level of hard-line countermeasure in history."

Trump responded that the "madman... will be tested like never before.".

Obviously, Kim was not responding well to Trump's childish rhetoric. "I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotard with fire."

Then matters got serious. North Korea might test a hydrogen bomb in the Pacific Ocean. “It could be the most powerful detonation of an H-bomb in the Pacific,” Foreign Minister Ri Yong-ho told reporters at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. “We have no idea about what actions could be taken as it will be ordered by leader Kim Jong Un.”

Trump tweeted, "Kim Jong Un of North Korea, who is obviously a madman who doesn't mind starving or killing his people, will be tested like never before!"

It is being suggested that Trump tone down the rhetoric some and begin acting like an American President instead of schoolyard bully.

 

The L.A. Times reports, "Senior aides to President Trump repeatedly warned him not to deliver a personal attack on North Korea’s leader at the United Nations this week, saying insulting the young despot in such a prominent venue could irreparably escalate tensions and shut off any chance for negotiations to defuse the nuclear crisis.

"Trump’s derisive description of Kim Jong Un as “Rocket Man on a suicide mission” and his threat to “totally destroy” North Korea were not in a speech draft that several senior officials reviewed and vetted Monday, the day before Trump gave his first address to the U.N. General Assembly, two U.S. officials said.

"Some of Trump’s top aides, including national security advisor H.R. McMaster, had argued for months against making the attacks on North Korea’s leader personal, warning it could backfire.

"But Trump felt compelled to take a harder line."

Sure enough, it backfired. Matters only got worse, much worse.

Thank you, Mr.President.

 

There is something very strange about all this. For months Trump has been trying to get China more engaged with North Korea. On Thursday he announced that the Chinese central bank has told its banks to cut off North Korea. That is huge news. However, since Thursday, very little has been said about this development.

Trump, who needs no encouragement to brag about his accomplishments, has said virtually nothing about this since Thursday. He had the perfect opportunity to gloat about his successes with China at campaign rally in Alabama. While he brought up the international crisis with North Korea, Trump didn't say a word about the Chinese central bank.

Indeed, the only sources we have on the central bank's supposedly new policy with the hermit kingdom are the story from Reuters and Trump, and Trump is probably feeding off the Reuters story as are all other news outlets.

In the original post, I wrote, "China’s central bank did not immediately respond to a request for comment." That is still true. Once again, I did a comprehensive search for corroboration of the original Reuters story, preferably from the Chinese government, foreign ministry, press, or Chinese ambassador.

Nothing. There hasn't even been a followup story from Reuters or anyone else.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on Thursday addressed the United Nations (UN) General Assembly. He said that China was firmly committed to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, but said nothing about the Chinese central bank.

Again, I wrote, "The Chinese government has been under pressure to comply with the U.N. sanctions. We are being led to believe that China suddenly has reversed itself and is now in compliance and the Chinese government prefers to keep this a secret? One would think they would want to make a proud announcement to the world to relieve the pressure they are receiving from their trading partners, primarily the United States. If true, keeping this a secret makes no sense."

One can only conclude Trump lied to us again. While one can be reasonably certain Trump made those remarks about China's central bank on the basis of the news media, we do need a President who passes along news stories, particularly questionable ones. We need a President who tells the truth to Americans based upon the best intelligence available from our comprehensive intell agencies.

It wouldn't be the first time he passed along bogus information that he heard on television.

And, of course, lying comes easy to Trump. He has only a very casual relationship to the truth.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Woulda, shoulda, coulda is a popular game in crises.

 

Trump doesn't seem to understand. The United States does not need to brag about what it can do to NK. Kim knows what the U.S. can do. Trump's advisors, who are urging Trump to tone it down, know what the U.S. can do. China and Russia know what the U.S. can do. The whole world knows what the U.S. can do.

Except Trump and his loyal base. They simply are too ignorant to know that gloating about U.S. military power is counterproductive and downright stupid.

Kim won't attack the U.S. and he won't attack a U.S. territory. But, if Trump is stupid enough, Kim can make the American President look foolish. And that is exactly what is happening. Trump insults Kim. Kim insults Trump. Back and forth it goes.

That is a victory for North Korea!

Trump is playing right into Kim's hand, and he is too stupid and too paranoid to know it.

Picture Kim launching another insult against Trump. And Trump says nothing. His advisors say nothing. At a Security Council meeting Haley talks about feeding children in impoverished areas, and there is no mention of NK.

When a nation has overwhelming military power, and a fourth rate military power is foolish enough to send a provocative message to the superpower, absolute silence from the superpower is ominous.

But silence is beyond Trump. He simply can't remain silent in the face of a direct insult. His arrogance, his narcissistic persona won't permit it. It is entirely possible that thousands of people could pay the ultimate price for the President's flaw.

 

Trump on Sunday again mocked North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and said Secretary of State Rex Tillerson should not bother trying to negotiate with him in an effort to stop the country's development of nuclear weapons.

"I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man..." Trump said on Twitter.

He continued, "...Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!"

What an idiot. This is typical Trump. Now he is starting still another controversy. Last week he made moronic and child-like attacks on the NFL while increasing racial tensions across the country. Later in the week he got in a twitter tiff with the mayor of San Juan, Puerto Rico. This is what he does. He creates controversy. He needs to be the center of attention.

We know by now to treat whatever he says with a grain of salt. He is rapidly making himself irrelevant. Those who actually wield the power, Mattis and the chiefs of staff, will simply ignore him. Case in point, Trump's order to cease and desist transgender people in the military. Mattis and the chiefs of staffs ignored the order.

Just as Tillerson will ignore what Trump said here. Oh, he will say something diplomatically, re-interpreting what Trump said and telling us what Trump really meant. Tillerson will then say he and Trump are on the same page. Then Tillerson will go on about his business as though nothing had happened. Except for a dumbass statement, nothing has happened.

This has all happened before. Trump is irrelevant. This will be in the news for a day or two, then Trump will create a new controversy.

And, again, eventually, everyone will ignore him. Trump knows it. That's why he does what he does. He loves the attention.

I am seriously wondering what Republican lawmakers think about all this. It is in their power to remove Trump. Are they waiting for Mueller's report? Can we wait that long? How long can we have a moron as President?

 

I said, "Just as Tillerson will ignore what Trump said here. Oh, he will say something diplomatically, re-interpreting what Trump said and telling us what Trump really meant. Tillerson will then say he and Trump are on the same page. Then Tillerson will go on about his business as though nothing had happened"

Asked if the President's tweets indicate he has decided to abandon the diplomatic track on North Korea, a senior administration official told CNN: "We are still committed to a diplomatic approach."

In other words, the state department is simply ignoring what Trump tweeted.

 

Trump is correct that it is pointless to try to get anywhere by talking to Kim. And yet, that doesn't contradict the senior administration official who said that we are still committed to a diplomatic approach.

It's just that the diplomacy is not with the Kim regime.

Any administration that would sit down with Kim expecting him to negotiate in good faith and to negotiate an end to his nuclear weapons program ... would be a fool. He is defying the whole world, and he has been for a long time, including Russia and China. In his most recent statement he expressed pride in the fact that the nuclear weapons program had advanced to its present status in spite of international sanctions "that have lasted for decades", a subtle reminder that this situation has nothing to do with Trump.

In my opinion, the intended audience for this latest Trump tweet was China, and, secondarily, Russia.

The diplomatic approach must work quickly, in my opinion. The clock is ticking.

 

Trump is cutting his secretary of state and secretary of defense off at the knees. The White House said, "We've been clear that now is not the time to talk. The only conversations that have taken place or that would would be on bringing back Americans who have been detained, like with Otto. Those were the type of conversations that this administration would be willing to have. Beyond that, there will be no conversations with North Korea at this time."

Why is he doing that? Are Mattis and Tillerson getting too much publicity? Trump doesn't want to share the stage? What Trump is doing doesn't make sense.

Your right. The White House also said that the U.S. would only be willing to speak about the return of three Americans currently detained by North Korea.

Yes, that has been true in the past. That is no reason to stop trying because the alternative is far worse, and it certainly is not a reason for the President to undercut his own cabinet members who are closest to the crisis.

Yes, Seth, I am sure you are right. No doubt Xi and Putin are thoroughly enjoying Trump's brainless tweets that sabotage his own administration.

 

Sandy, it makes sense. Trump's hard line statements actually empower our diplomats.

We can't know exactly what our diplomats are saying to China. But we can speculate. And what I speculate is that they are asking China not to cheat on the sanctions. They may be asking the Chinese to toughen the sanctions into a full embargo. They may even be asking the Chinese to use force to get rid of Kim and his nuclear weapons program. But one thing we can be fairly certain of is that the Chinese don't really want to do any of those things. After all, they have nurtured NK ever since the Korean War. They have supported NK and enabled NK over the years while NK has been developing its nuclear weapons program, doing nothing to stop it. So the Chinese are not really going to do anything unless they believe the consequences of doing nothing outweigh the consequences of doing something. And this is exactly why our diplomats need Trump to take a hard stand. This is why they need Trump to threaten "the total destruction" of North Korea as well as the other bellicose statements he has made. Because without those statements as a backdrop, from China's perspective, Tillerson has got nothing but empty words. And the Chinese, who don't really want to do anything, won't do anything over empty words. Tillerson has no chance of getting anything done unless Trump is in the background threatening to go to war over this.

Because there is really nothing to talk about with regard to the nuclear weapons that hasn't already been said and that hasn't already been tried.

That's just your Trump obsession talking. If you think Xi and Putin are enjoying all of this, then you are saying they are stupid.

Neither one of them is stupid.

We are, right now as we speak, following the pattern we follow as we lead up to war. They must know this! Those guys are not dummies!

Seth

 

Seth, I just don't see how that is possible. What Kim, Xi, and Putin see is that Trump is undermining his own negotiators. That makes them ineffective. SK and Japan can't be happy with Trump taking the rug out from underneath the American negotiators. That tactic is not very bright. Trump is making whatever Tillerson says meaningless because the true power is in the Presidency, and Trump is saying something completely different.

Aw, the old good cop/bad cop routine. I have never been a fan of that tactic because it is so transparent. If you and I can figure that out, rest assured so can Xi, Putin, and Kim. That renders the tactic useless.

But let's assume that is what Trump is trying to do. The mechanics is foolish. The President is the bad cop? The President should stay above the fray, and lets his advisors duke it out. The bad cop could be the NSA or the SecDef. The Presidents stays aloof from it all. I seriously doubt it, but that might work.

Is Trump capable of staying above the fray? Can he stay aloof? Can he keep his mouth shut and let his advisors work?

Hell, no.

 

My preference is for the president to be frank and blunt. Remember, this is not some new crisis that has just cropped up out of the blue. "Frank and blunt" is not very diplomatic, but don't think of Trump's efforts as if they are in a vacuum. Think of it as just a continuation of U.S. policy. It has always been our policy that NK should not develop nuclear weapons. Soft diplomacy has already been tried - for what? 20-25 years? So the "frank and blunt" is an evolution because soft and genteel diplomacy has not worked, and it is now time for that shift.

Quoting Kim from today's news ...

“Japan's such rackets inciting the tension of the Korean peninsula is a suicidal deed that will bring nuclear clouds to the Japanese archipelago,” the statement said. “No one knows when the touch-and-go situation will lead to a nuclear war, but if so, the Japanese archipelago will be engulfed in flames in a moment. This is too self-evident."

North Korea threatened to bring "nuclear clouds" to Japan and mocked Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for acting like a "headless chicken" at the United Nations General Assembly when the leader urged U.N. members to force North Korea to end its nuclear and missile programs.

Sandy, this guy just threatened Japan, a non-nuclear nation, with nuclear annihilation for .... words. Words, Sandy. Words! Nuclear annihilation for ... words!

And there are actually posters on this board, and pundits on TV, who think Kim is perfectly sane and would never do anything with nuclear weapons unless he is attacked first. They actually believe that the United States should just accept NK's nuclear program and his ability to annihilate us because they trust him as a rational actor.

Never, Never, Never!

This nuclear program cannot be negotiated. It cannot be "limited". It must be ended. Ended, Sandy ... One way or the other.

You know who's watching us, Sandy? Our descendants. Yet unborn Americans who will die as America as we know it ... is ended. And we would deserve it if the last words out of their mouths ... was curse upon us.

Seth

 

Trump's mistake is putting himself out in front of all this and that is classic Trump. He has highly capable advisors, but he won't let them do their jobs. McMasters can be frank and blunt. He is the National Security Advisor. Mattis or the chief of staff, Dunford, can be frank and blunt. Trump should stay above it all to keep Kim guessing.

But is is too late now, and, besides, Trump isn't capable of staying above it all. He wants to get down in the dirt with Kim, tit for tat, and that is a mistake. Kim is making Trump look foolish. Seth, can't you see that?

Yes, but I don't like the alternative. Consult my newest thread. "Mattis makes Trump look foolish." There is some material there you should read.

Shift to what? Trump's frank and blunt rhetoric has been around for five months. Remember the armada he sent? We are no further along than when the armada sailed.

It is not necessary for Trump to trade insults with Kim. North Korea wins when he does that.

Yes, and he has threatened Guam. He has threatened the U.S. homeland with nuclear annihilation. He won't attack Japan or us. You said it yourself. They are just words.

Yes, that could happen if Trump decides to remove North Korea's nuclear facilities and Kim uses his nuclear weapons. That should frighten you more.

As long as both sides are talking, even if they are insults, there is no war, no nukes going off. Seth, that is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

I have honestly never noticed that before...

 

It is a tiny strip of the border in the northeast about 20 miles long near Vladivostok.

 

Trump is nuts. In a pair of Tweets sent Saturday afternoon, Trump said that past agreements with North Korea have all been violated.

Then he added cryptically that "only one thing will work."

"Presidents and their administrations have been talking to North Korea for 25 years, agreements made and massive amounts of money paid ... hasn't worked, agreements violated before the ink was dry, makings fools of U.S. negotiators," Trump tweeted. "Sorry, but only one thing will work!"

The guy thinks this is one big reality show and he is the star.

I seriously wonder what Republicans lawmakers are thinking about all this. Trump really is acting like he is deranged. We have no idea what they are thinking because they are strangely silent.

Ominously silent.

 

After Trump's conference with his Pentagon and military leaders yesterday, there wasn't supposed to be a news conference. However, Trump changed that because ostensibly he had an important announcement. Watch this video as Trump talks about the "calm before the storm. Note the broad smile on his face as if he knows he is playing with his audience.



This is all a big joke to him. This has happened so many times before. When is the media going to quit pussyfooting around with this guy? Trump hasn't forgotten his days as a performer on a reality show. That is what this is, a performance complete with a full cast of characters.

If any other President had said this with a direct reference to something specific -- which is missing in this case -- there would be grave concern. But this is Trump. There is no concern.

None at all.