Trump scolds NATO allies on defense spending

'Stepping up' to what? Have I missed all the wars we have been obligated to support you in because of our NATO committments?

 

UK is paid up, 5 out of the 28 countries aren't. That includes MOST of Europe.

 

More ignorance above. Look at this map and it's break down of base size and personnel. By and FAR the greatest extent of US NATO spending is in Europe. Our Pacific bases IE Japan don't even come close and those bases in Japan also make European countries safer. Global Partner to NATO and all that.

All those little blips you see around the world all together don't even come close to our expenditures in Europe and our base maintenance in personnel, equipment, and cost to run. They mainly are lily pads.

The US spent say 3.5% of our 18.5 trillion dollar GDP on NATO last year which is.. In my head at least 600 billion dollars. LET'S go with the crybabies and say and I doubt it.. Half only goes to Europe. 300 billion dollars? A year??

Germanys defense minister has come out saying they don't owe NATO anything.

Merkel is out blowing smoke talking about development aid and they control all of the EUs economy and even they refuse to pay?
Making excuses and talking about 10 year plans?

Just crying and crying is all I'm hearing from European governments and posters here. But oh as soon as we start talking about drastically reducing or leaving NATO?

Ohhh but no we were allies in a war 75 plus years ago and if you leave the Russian Bear whos approx yearly budget for defense is only 55 billion dollars will EAT US.

Posters here are saying that the US isn't doing that much anyway I mean we aren't important so great we leave it to you Euros.

Seriously and I mean this kindly grow a pair already Germanys military spending alone is 3/4 of Russia's and all of Europe can't muster a defense??

Snorts.

 

So don't spend. NATO was formed, as you know, as opposition to the USSR and Warsaw Pact, neither of which exist any longer, thus there is no necessity for a US military presence here in Europe. There is no threat to Europe from Russia, and even if there were any, two nuclear powers within Europe are deterrent enough. No, the sole reason the US is maintaining these bases is to protect her ongoing plan for global hegemony. Little wonder international polls routinely cite the US as the greatest threat to world peace. And now you have an unprincipled and impulsive cabbage leading you. What could possibly go wrong?

 

Misdirection and personal grooming attack on my President is noted. I win.

What makes Europe pathetic is they don't like our POTUS many don't even like Americans. We know that and we still want to defend you and we KNOW we still will be paying the lion share because our GDP comprises 29% of the worlds and are OK with it....

But look at the media today from Europe

Buncha excuses and double talk about 2% because we have been spoiling Europe like an only child for decades.

Europeans should be ashamed to be taking so advantage of the American people but they aren't. Arrogance

Anyone else?

 

What are you 'defending' Europe against, exactly? America is disliked for several reasons; mostly because you're the most belligerent nation on the planet, you overthrow democracies, invade countries for no apparent reason, you arm, finance and support terrorist organisations, while spouting hypocritical crap about 'freedom and democracy'.
You are also cited as the greatest threat to world peace. So, in your opinion, what am I supposed to be liking here? Oh, and you managed, somehow, to elect an impulsive cabbage who has insulted and denigrated his allies, including those in Europe. Nice going, America, we love you.

 

Why have you left out the bases in the US? Is that because it ruins your figures?. Why have you left out your navy? Is that because it ruins your figures?. You are not needed, no one is forcing you to spend anything - it is your government that likes military spending and the lemmings happily support it

 

Exactly. Trump complains about NATO spending out of one side of his gob while promising to increase military spending out of the other. Madness.

 

What else would one expect from a complete MORON (like Trump) who has ZERO understanding of the nuances of the Defense Budget?

 

Now we want to talk about US bases? That graph above was to debunk where actually in the world our bases and our dollars are. With people claiming we don't spend that much in Europe on NATO? .. With 30 bases, 11 the size of small cities and 350 odd outposts?

Really? We aren't needed? Fantastic! Oh but...

Then why all the excuses from Europe about the 2%?
Why don't the Euros tell us to ramp down? To close bases faster?

Why don't Euros take control of their own defense with their own military leadership and checkbooks?

How come some NATO countries are now actually talking about paying for their full price ticket to ride in the US gravy train? That sponsors the defense of Europe from that mean, turrrrible, Russian Bear?

Question my numbers if like but it's European defense not ours and we pay 25 too 100 times plus more than NATO countries? It's scandalous.

What Europe really should do is start petitions to apply to be territories of the US. You know like Puerto Rico. They then can all build little cabanas with their flags as roofs and Americans can come and compare each ones Mojitos.

This way our government will get your taxes and I will at least get a free drink for paying for European defense

 

Good. I'd like to scold them too.

 

Ukraine wasn't and still isn't a member of NATO. It wanted to be, but was rejected out of concerns that becoming a member could lead to a confrontation between NATO and Russia. The only wars in Europe since NATO formed have been in non-NATO nations. NATO has maintained peace for about 7 decades inside the territories of member states. That's a VERY good record. If the U.S. wants other NATO members to up their contribution, that's fine, but ask them in private sessions and in a friendly, constructive way. Trump attacks them publicly, and makes the U.S. appear like a Mafia force willing to protect only those "friends" whose contributions are up to date. That's an ugly image of America, and one very much in conflict with my personal image of this nation.

 

I've no doubt that much of what you say is true, but that doesn't change the impact NATO has had in Europe. For all its faults, it has still been a force for peace in a continent known for its consistent and constant wars. Let's be willing to give credit where credit is due. I applaud NATO, and support our continued presence in it.

 

I sense a quest for "fairness" here, and I learned in my pre-teens, and I suspect most people everywhere know that life isn't fair. Yet, the lack of war is a benefit to all concerned, regardless of whether everyone paid their "fair" share in dues to maintain it. Yes, some nations gained more through investing less, but everyone gained. Why can't we all celebrate the peace gained and be happy?

 

Let's try focusing on what we've gained with that 3% rather than simply the money spent. First, seven decades of peace in a continent known for its constant and continuous wars. Second, the establishment of a powerful and effective military presence for both European democracies AND the U.S. in Europe, ready to go active in a matter of minutes against any threat. Third, a functioning political and military partnership that has repeatedly proven its ability to work together to meet unexpected emergencies and surprise threats. And fourth, a powerful team of committed nations working together against the growing threat of international terrorism. America's ability to face that threat would be seriously hampered if it had to go it alone. Let's not get caught up in seeing only the cup half empty. There's a positive side to this story. Be willing to see it.

 

I agree. NATO is worth the investment.

But what should the U.S., the U.K., Poland and the other countries do when the other countries aren't paying their fair share? The U.S. has begged the other countries for several DECADES to pay up and we've been ignored. Should we just give up and accept that some countries will be moochers?

 

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question. But, since several Presidents haven't found an answer either, I guess I'm in good company. I do feel strongly that the benefits of NATO far outweigh the negatives, and I continue to support our active participation. Of course, we can continue asking the moochers behind the scenes, to make an effort to contribute more, but do so without threat. Who knows, maybe some of them will be responsive.

 

And you seriously call Europeans 'arrogant'?
I'm European and I don't like Trump (as you put it). In a democracy I have the right to like or dislike another head of state or any other politician
and openly say it.
There is zero pathetic about that.

 

Isn't the approval rating of Trump like 41%
So it's many Americans don't like Trump.
No real shame for Europeans there.

China is 1st, EU is 2nd, the US is 3rd.
https://www.thebalance.com/world-s-largest-economy-3306044

The US only fights it's pointless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with it.
The crap that resulted the EU is swarmed by millions of refugees.

Totally counter productive and it's just better to use the money to deal with the problems the US causes than help the US with making bigger problems.

 

Because that peace being gained is predominately being funded by US taxpayers without nothing to show for is in the US except a dried up well. Since when has the US alliance with NATO ever protected the US? The only reason the US pays more is so the US can violate it and it's tolerated.

 

No peace was gained by attacking the Taliban and Iraq. It only caused a massive stream of refugees towards Europe.

 

Bullshit.

Chancellor Merkel already said she will change zero. Trump was acting like an idiot at the NATO summit. When you looked at the speech, merkel did not even listen but chatted with Macron.

 

I remember Bush's speech after 9/11 as NATO tried to sit it out, he said "you're either with us or against us." Thanks NATO for your support.

 

And she'll get zero in return from now on. Good luck.

 

Nothing will change. Germany owns Europe. Merkel blasted Trumps demands aside on evry level.

So far Trumps idiotic behavior made her win big. She positions herself as the alternative. In France Macron became new president because people saw that trump is a loser. With Macron she won France as absolute supporter and closed the lines within the EU.