UK Women & Islam: The rise and rise of the convert

Well I don't share your and Rania's notion of religion as seperate from culture. Religion is part of culture, not intertwined but wholly part of. In any case this example was not about religion it was about what it means in practice to be oppressed by a patriarch and how having a busy career doesn't make one immune all of which was your preconception.

Cultures evolve and different aspects may have roots of different lengths and from different previous cultures. Aspects can thus be related across different cultures and be common. Religion is an aspect of culture and different cultures can have a common religion either through a common root or through cross cultural influence. This doesn't make religion something apart from and independant of culture.Drawing on past thinkers work to modern ethical questions does not place their work outside of culture but is merely an effort at seeking out the cultural roots to give meaning in the present. Different minds come to different results but this doesn't make the roots a new entity. The declaration of HR is the product of modern Western culture, a culture which has become global and dominant. If we now invisage a popular futuristic world in which China dominates with its branch of our present mainstream Western culture the different Chinese experts interpretations of those rights in their modern context will still not lift those original rights to anything different than products of culture. Likewise the new interpretations will still be cultural products.

This is essentially different from science and scientific discoveries. Scientific discoveries are cultural products too but science itself is not.

What norms? I have not mentioned norms. Why do you say I don't leave room for exceptions? From what I have stated I leave room for more than exceptions! Where have I even given the impression of Muslim women = victim? Are you suggesting anyone converting or becoming a member of a religious group as the result of a relationship or view to one, is a victim? No, I'm not going to even read your link yet since you are introducing something new in our discussion and trying to pin it on me!

 

Sorry to tell you this but like many Islamapologist posts before this, I can only say hogwash ! There can be no greater false proclamation than to say that wife-beating is equal between Islam, Christianity and Judaism. HA HA HA. I even have to laugh to such an absurd suggestion. In fact, part of what you say confirms what I say.

You said "One out of every four Christian couples experiences at least one episode of physical abuse within their marriage." And you present that as being a lot ? It's a drop in the bucket compared to Muslim marriages.
First off, "one episode of physical abuse within their marriage" could be one episode over a span of 30 or 40 years (or more). One episode in 40 years. That's an extremely good record, and even that is only 25% of the Christian marriages, with 75% having zero physical abuse.Also, "one episode" doesn't state who is beating whom. It could include physical abuse of wives upon battered husbands, just as well. (http://www.batteredmen.com/) This is a confirmation of the huge superiority of Christianity over Islam in the subject of wife-beating. It's actually quite amazing how clean is the Christian record, I had no idea it was that good.

Now for the horrific record of Islam. Try these stats on for size.

1. In 1997, an attorney general in the Palestinian Authority told an audience of women that in his opinion, the honor killings of Palestinian women in Gaza and the West Bank were close to 70% of all female deaths. (Jessica Morgan and Muhammad Elrashidi, "Editorial/Opinions", The Minnesota Daily, January 29, 1999.)

2. The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, citing government figures, in a 2006 report, said that about a thousand women die annually in honor killings. ("UN Womens' Rights Group Criticized Pakistan for Honor Killings, Trafficking, Associated Press, June 8, 2007.)

3. In Jordan, honor killings of women are permissable by law (Article 341 of Jordanian Law).

4. The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences reports that 90% of the Pakistani female population has been beaten (for such "wrongdoings" as giving birth to a daughter or cooking an unsatisfactory meal).
("Violence Against Women in Pakistan", Amnesty International media briefing, April 17, 2002, http://amnesty.org)

 

You sure come up with some incredibly absurd things. You're sure are you ?
LOL.. If Muslim women were doing what I said there wouldn't be ANY wife-beating going on, but there sure is. And not just wife-beating, but lots of wife-killing too (AKA "honor killings). See the stats in post # 52.
And nothin "Islamic" about what I suggest ? You mean wife-beating ? Pheeeeeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle). No nothing much. Just Koran 4:34, that's all.

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." (Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83)

Yes, of course they cease being Catholics, if that is what Catholicism mandates.

Bombing countries full of people could take a few different forms. If the bombing is done to prevent greater numbers of deaths, then that is in the scope of self-defense. It's possible to be a Muslim partially, or a Christian partially as well. I consider myself a Christian, but I don't turn the other cheek, or love my enemies.

What is your definition of " "Monolithic Muslim Menace" ? I sense a straw man in the works here.

What do you say is "foolish rhetoric" ? I need to have that be more specific and not just be "foolish rhetoric".

 

Nope. They relate to protecting PEOPLE.

 

I don't ignore him or you, and yes it IS a thing specific to Islam, in sura 4:34.

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." (Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83)

 

Protectionist :The advocacy, system, or theory of protecting domestic producers by impeding or limiting, as by tariffs or quotas, the importation of foreign goods and services.

 

The report states "at least" which means one or more episodes of physical abuse AND you think that is extremely good! This occurs in 25% of Christian marriages and countless other marriages where the abuse is not reported.

70% of all female deaths, what? 30% die from old age, car accidents, other murders, disease! Your stats get more and more ridiculous. How are there nearly twice as many females to males over 65 years old in Gaza?

Strange that the source that is linked in that Jihad Watch article does not exist. Anyway to compare with the US "honour killings", according to the U.S. Department of Justice, approximately 2,000 women are murdered every year by an intimate partner.

No it does not say that!
"Kharabsheh added that other articles in the law have granted women lenient punishments, such as article (341), which reduces the punishment for a woman who kills her child who was born out of wedlock to avoid being disgrace. "

 

Yes, the same events that occur all over the western "Christian" world except that in the western world, Instead of firstly advising them, then (if no progress) forsaking them in bed and then (last resort) finally strike them, the western men tend to firstly strike them, then rape them and then go to a bar and get drunk.

 

Or go to a bar, get drunk and come home and beat/rape the wife just because they can.

 

Protectionist : one who protects. Got it now ?

 

Nothing but your rhetorical nonsense. I think I'll go with the stats from Oddquine that in Christains' marraiges, as few as only one episode of physical abuse occur over decades of marriage, and 75% of them had none. A remarkably clean record. Compared to their horrific record of Islam in this regard it's heavenly. Your "refutes" of my stats on Muslim violence are a laughingstock.

 

It is better than "good" when compared to Muslim violence, like the rapist jerk in the new Jersey case who though he should have been exonerated because of Koran 4:34 (meaningless under US law)

Are you dreaming out loud or something. What does "nearly twice as many females to males over 65 years old in Gaza" have to do with anything I've said ? And yeah, I guess 30% die from other causes, that's right. So ?
Back to the old invalidation defense huh ? Islamapologists never change. So you challenge 1. the Palestinian Authority attorney general 2. Jessica Morgan 3. Muhammad Elrashidi 4. The Minnesota Daily.
OK. Well everybody's free to challenge anything. And you've now presented 50% of yours. Now you can present the other 50% of it by telling us what you base your challenge upon. Without any factual basis, you have no challenge, so we'll assume you do have something. Let's hear it.

I'll come back to the UN AP report shortly, but in the meantime you want to say this 2009 report from the US State Dept. about Pakistan doesn't exist ?

"Rape, domestic violence, sexual harassment, and abuse against women remained serious problems. Honor crimes and discriminatory legislation affected women and religious minorities respectively. Religious freedom violations and inter-sectarian religious conflict continued. Widespread trafficking in persons, child labor, and exploitation of indentured and bonded children were ongoing problems. Child abuse, commercial sexual exploitation of children, discrimination against persons with disabilities, and lack of respect for worker rights remained concerns." (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2009/sca/136092.htm)

And aren't you going to question my the last one on my list (# 4) > The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences reports that 90% of the Pakistani female population has been beaten (for such "wrongdoings" as giving birth to a daughter or cooking an unsatisfactory meal). ("Violence Against Women in Pakistan", Amnesty International media briefing, April 17, 2002, http://amnesty.org) Guess you can't crab about the source huh ? Here's some more of it, from Amnesty International, that ought to make for interesting reading, confirming what I've said about Pakistan > (http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/the-worlds-worst-places-to-be-a-woman/)

As for the UN AP repodrt you said doesn't exist, how do you arrive at that ?

 

"International human rights organizations have condemned honor killings in Jordan and appealed to King Abdullah II to put an end to the practice. But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked in Jordan's parliament, where the predominantly conservative Bedouin lawmakers argue that tougher penalties would lead to adultery." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/12/jordan-honor-killing-man-_n_185977.html)

"Article 341 of Jordanian law considers murder a legitimate act of defense when "the act of killing another or harming another was committed as an act in defense of his life, or his honor, or somebody else's life or honor." Man, what a ticket to ride. Let's say eliminating Article 341 is another place to start." (http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?q=node/2515)

"Though she knows of many cases, Manal Kleibo Zarf, a female attorney at the Women’s Center for Legal Aid and Counseling (WCLAC), has never been asked to prosecute an honor killing. She believes this is because Jordanian Law still applies to the West Bank. Article 341 considers murder a legitimate act of defense when "The act of killing another or harming another was committed as an act in defense of his life, or his honor, or somebody else’s life or honor." (http://www.mediterraneas.org/article.php3?id_article=63)

Got it ? BTW. Citing another part of a law, and pretending that means the initial part being talked about doesn't exist, is ridiculous. It amounts to nothing more then changing the subject.

 

If 70% of females in Gaza are killed in honour killings, how do nearly twice as many females reach 65 years old compared to males? Do they import women over 65's?

I did not say that the report does not exist.

I see that you ignored "according to the U.S. Department of Justice, approximately 2,000 women are murdered every year by an intimate partner." How many of those were "honour killings" or do they not count because they are not Islamic?

Already have done, post 58

 

You need to read Oddquine post again. It states:

"One out of every four Christian couples experiences at least one episode of physical abuse within their marriage"

"In fact, battering is the single largest cause of injury to women—more than auto accidents, muggings, and rapes combined."

"The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists reports that 3 to 4 million women are beaten in their homes every year"

Even after I already pointed this out, you still blindly ignore the words "at least" , yet you think this is good! That only includes reported beatings.

 

But according to you "In Jordan, honor killings of women are permissable by law (Article 341 of Jordanian Law). so how come this report states that he has been charged with murder??????????????

Also how come your report states "Some members of government have also urged judges to consider honor killings equal to other homicides and punishable by up to 15 years in prison. But many in the judiciary still hand down lenient punishments of half of that or less." Surely there should be no punishment if article 341 states that they are permissable!

Also the punishment for murderers in the west is often less than that received for those charged with "honour" killings in the middle east.

Ha, I knew you lied. Your own link states "he suspects that 70 percent of all murders in Gaza and the West Bank are honor killings". So much for your claim "honor killings of Palestinian women in Gaza and the West Bank were close to 70% of all female deaths."

Got it ?

 

Already have done ? HA HA HA. Not hardly. Your post 58 was a joke. No reference to anything, pure rhetoric, and to equate Christians with Muslims when it comes to violence against women is beyond idiotic. It's a laughingstock. You think the 2009 report I cited from the US State Dept about pakistan could even remotely resemble the situation in America or European countries. If you're a Muslim, you'll probabaly say yes. LOL. I must be talking to a Muslim. No normal person could ever be talking like you are. That's one thing about Muslims. There's no limit on the absurdities they speak.

 

What YOU IGNORE is that all the countries that reportedly have the highest incidence of wife-beating happen to be Middle Eastern with high Muslim populations. You know those people who read the Koran, with Sura 4:34 in it.

 

Permissable means that the crime is allowed in and of the fact that the punishments are lenient.

"punishment for murderers in the west is often less than that received for those charged with "honour" killings in the middle east" ? HA HA HA. Are you nuts ? Well, yeah, if you're a Muslim, and a radical one, it sounds like, then of course you're nuts. Radical Muslims are the nuttiest goofballs in the world. I don't know why I'm even wasting my time talking to you.

Lastly, what do you mean "so much for" ? You just repeated the same thing. No discrepancy. You confirmed that what I said was right, and then you say "so much for". You're a Muslim all right. Pheeeeeeeeewww !! (high-pitched whistle). LOL.

 

1.5 Million Americans converted to ISLAM in USA -CNN News


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTRR7z9Vc5I&feature=related"]1.5 Million Americans converted to ISLAM in USA -CNN News - YouTube[/ame]



btw - I've got too many bad habits to adopt any of the Abrahamic trio believe systems.

 

Hell - is this true ?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IZtCdXk2f8&feature=related"]Angelina is a Muslim Now - YouTube[/ame]

 

Last summer? UKs been in the tank for years.

Whats frustrating the public these days is the various leaderships unwillingness to properly fix the issues,after promising for years to do so?

UK, being socialist, is finding out quickly the pitfalls of the govt picking up the tab for everything.

 

If enough Westerners embrace Islam then I predict it will become something very different.

 

A video about 2 of the dumbest women in the world. Do they know about Koran 4:34 ? Do they know in their looney Sharia court, a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's. And that if raped, they mist supply 4 witnesses. And that in general rape is looked upon as the woman's fault. many Muslim women rape victims have been hung for adultery. Do they know women are stoned to death, honor killed, made to sit in the back seat of a car, not allowed to attend schools, be required to wear burkas or nijabs, etc, etc.

The cherry on top of this fiasco of a report was Imam Faisal Rauf, the Ground Zero Moqsue terrorist, masquerading as a moderate. Pheeeeeeewww !

Lastly, what percent of these converts to Islam are hardened criminals in prison, where Muslim conversion is rampant, and convicts are told their pedophilia is OK in Islam. Their wife-beating is OK in Islam. Their murdering is OK in Islam (the Koran says so). Their raping is OK in Islam. This is what happens when politically correct do-gooders mindlessly allow Muslims to be prison chaplains.

 

UK Women are sooooo desperate for real men they have to turn to Swarthy chauvinist heathen mionorities to get away from the usuial Socialist Metrosexuial anglo/white Britisher.