UK Women & Islam: The rise and rise of the convert

How about producing some statistics from independent/reliable sources instead of spouting a load of unsubstantiated bigotry ?

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And here is more of your factless waffle. I said murder rate, not female murder rate for which those figures are not available. Anyway for you to ignore as usual, here are the world murder rates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

19 of the top 20 are Christian. What a surprise!

I see again you ignored the US DOJ statement that 2000 women are murdered by their partners/ It is so funny that you posted in another thread "Pointing to another evil does not excuse the first evil." You are definitely top in hypocrisy.

It is even funnier that in your mind only a Muslim would point out your failings.

 

You don't even bother to read your own sources:
HONOUR KILLING in India : A notion of sanskritisation:
Every year thousands of lives are sacrificed, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or social status of the family. People kill their own kin and kiths in the name of family’s/caste’s pride and honour. The worst thing is that where the Panchayats pronounce death penalties for the youths who dare to enter in a relationship outside their caste/creed/religious and economic circle.
http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?q=node/5129

UNLIKE you though I have the intelligence to work out that honour killings are not about religion (which is sometimes used as an excuse) but culture.

 

"You don't even bother to read your own sources:"

Hehehehe .

Well said .


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Actually 19 out of 20 are secular in nature, not christian. Countrary to the muzzi, we don't base our society on religion, especially one that advocate the opression and mass killing of infidel.

The only true christian nation is the Vatican...

 

Hmm, how 'christian' was turning away Jews seeking sanctuary? How 'christian' was signing the Reichskonkordat with Nazi Germany thus giving moral legitimacy to Hitler?
The Vatican state wouldn't know true Christianity if it came up and bit the Pope on his sanctimonious arse.

 

I already have done that. Read further back in the thread.

 

19 0f the top 20. Yeah, great. Now factor in all the honor killings that Muslim countries don't classify as "homicides" + all the murders masquerading as executions, and you get what ? Oh 20 of the top 20 are Muslim. What a surprise. LOL. Nice try on that one.

Yeah, I'm ignoring the alleged DOJ statement until you provide a link to it, and then it can be examined for what kind of criteria is involved (if there even is such a figure) + whatever the figure is compares to Pakistan regarding how many women are murdered by their partners there. Remember though, In Muslim countries the definition of murder is one that comes with the context of Koran thinking. Things that survey takers call "murder", Muslims in the Islamic world don't.

 

Unlike me ? HA HA HA. Well now you put yourself in position to come up with a basis for saying that I confined honor killing to only Muslims. I don't remember ever saying that. If you have an example to show, let's hear it. LOL.

 

And exactly WHO would you say those independent/reliable sources might be ?
And would their definitions be the same as the definitions of Muslim countries they get their statistics from ?

These are sources I've listed in my posts in this thread. Are you saying they are not reliable ? If so, you now have a challenge to show how any of these is, in any way, not reliable. If you think you have some specific evidence to demonstrate that, let's hear it.

http://www.mediterraneas.org/article.php3?id_article=63

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?q=node/2515

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/12/jordan-honor-killing-man-_n_185977.html

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/the-worlds-worst-places-to-be-a-woman/

http://amnesty.org/

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2009/sca/136092.htm

http://www.batteredmen.com/

They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Robert Spencer

Stealth Jihad by Robert Spencer

Infiltration by Paul Sperry

The Day of Islam by Dr. Paul Williams

Sharia: the Threat to America by the Center for Security Policy

The Third Jihad (DVD) by Dr. Zuddhi Jasser

Muslim Mafia by P.David Gaubatz & Paul Sperry

Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/honor_killings/

 

If anyone could believe these phony, conjob, Muslim Islamists, that the treatment of women in the Christian world is the same or worse than that in Islam, they are either out of their minds, or as dumb as a box of rocks. The images in this link are Islam. They bear no resemblence, even slightly, to behavior in the modern Christian world.

Caution : extremely disturbing graphic images. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images:Violence_Against_Women

 

I do not think anyone here has condoned so-called "honor killing" , - So , what measures would you suggest be taken to is eradicate these crimes. ?


You appear to be extremely concerned . Have you tried to discover the views of most muslims , for example via the Arab media etc. ?

see this :

http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/honour_killings.pdf

and this :

http://www.arabnews.com/lifestyle/islam/article456048.ece

Honor killing is against Islamic laws



I've NOT read the Koran but I'm told Honor Killing is not sanctioned in that book, is that correct. ?


cheers.

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Citation needed.

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Secular politically and populated by Christians

The punishment for all crimes in Islamic countries is so severe that the crimes rarely occur. Hence the extremely low crime rate.

 

So you do think it is a competition to see which religion comes top (in bold above).

As for the rest of your post it is just your usual factless rants.

How about this:
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/sciprc/pdf/DOMESTIC_AND_FAMILY_VIOLENCE.pdf

AND as for your treatment of women
"A 2007 government report in England says "Estimates from research suggest that between 75 and 95 per cent of rape crimes are never reported to the police."
http://www.hmic.gov.uk/media/without-consent-20061231.pdf

 

Not hard to find since I put your statement that I was referring to in bold in my post. I also did not say you said "confined".

 

What you are claiming is that if a phenomenon is present within two different religious communities then it cannot be a religious phenomenon. However switching religion with culture you come to the opposite conclusion! The truth is that religion is part of culture not a seperate entity independant of culture.

Religions/cultures can have a common root, they can influence each other or be subjected to a common influence or it can simply be by chance. It is widely accepted that Jews practice of moneylending in medieval Europe was due to religion. Does the Japanese having the same practice during this periode mean it cannot have had a religious reason?

 

What I am actually saying is that in this example, the phenomenon being honour killings, were taking place well before Islam was "invented". The fact that a religion gets developed does not stop the phenomenon. Only laws can help reduce honour killings. "Honour killing" are very much an eastern culture. I have put the two words in quotation marks because "honour killings" do occur in the western world but are just recorded as another murder if carried out by a non-Muslim.
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I don't dispute that. For a start the ten commandments gave rise to law in all countries that have Abrahamic religions as their main religions.

I don't know the history of money lending to comment.

 

If religions getting "developed" didn't stop undesirable and start desirable practices then there wouldn't be much point in the religion! Apparently female infanticide was also a common practice before Islam was "invented" and yet this practice was stopped by the new religion.

I don't believe incidents of spouse killing are honour killings as these are perpetrated by bloodline relatives to uphold family honour and is both expected and respected within the wider community. Neither is it true that non Muslim honour killings are not referred to as such, they are just much rarer. There was even a case in modern Italian society where a brother shot his sister - she survived.

Good so if you don't dispute that then your conclusion doesn't work.

You don't need to know the history of money lending to comment, all you need to comment on is whether the conclusion can be made or not.

 

Interesting that so many women convert who live in secular Turkey and that so many are European or American women.
If Islam is all that is said here, why would so many be converting in Turkey and elsewhere around the world? After all France and Turkey is not Afghanistan is it.

 

Real Men (Or a warped vision of such) are hard to Find in Wetern European Countries ,so the poor Women look elsewhere ...

 

let me tell you as someone who knows the US and the Europeans

the Europeans are men without weapons, the Americans need weapons to be men

American would not come off very well in a fight with German or Frenchman or an Englishman

 

LOL uh wut ?

 

When they play football they dont dress up like Rubberman to protect themselves! haha

American footballers


English and French players

 

I suggest its because they are in a relationship with a Muslim Turk. If it weren't for Islamic culture's social control and patriarchal values then there perhaps there would be just as many relationships between Turkish women and non Muslim men. Then there might be as many men converting to Islam as women plus if it wasn't such a taboo to convert to another faith for Muslims we might see more of them converting. I have an Iranian friend who married a Catholic women and converted to Catholicism but he keeps very quiet about it.