Under trump, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

Obama shouldn't have promised it then. He sold the plan on this and it turned out not to be true.

He never should have said it was a sure thing.

Again, he shouldn't have promised it then.

As you said, its a statistic which is easily verifiable which can only lead one to believe he lied on purpose here. You don't get something as basic as that wrong unless you are doing it intentionally.

Regardless, Obama still lied about it.

I rest my case.

Obama lied and Trump lied.

 

There used to be a poster here, who's name I shortened to Aki. He was a proponent of Kenysian Economics. While I was more in favor of a Mixed Economy. However in discussing with Aki, I realized several paradigms that have changed the outlook on money.

A: Every economy is expanding its monetary value, not just the US. 21 Trillion today, is going to look like a drop in the bucket compared to 10 years from now.

To be very literal, Trump's basically added 1.6 T in over 2 years. That might seem staggering, but it's actually a staggering decline compared to the Bushes/Obama/Clinton. This is the most fiscal government we've had in a while(which is saying alot while still more needs to be done.)

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-spending

If you click 'historical', you'll see a chart on our spending growth and what you'll notice is that the line has almost flattened for the first time in over FIFTY years.(There's a slight 'uptick', but in comparative terms, this government has been fiscally conservative.)

So the Democrat talking point here, is a gross lie. It doesn't even do it justice to call it a lie, it's a pants on fire claim. Not even considering of course, mandatory spending items that aren't negotiated at all.

So this idea that Trump and the Republicans are gross spenders(while at the same time highlighting the political-government resistance movement) is another way to look at this farce.

Now the real issue is Debt-to-GDP at 105%. Last I looked at the end of the Obama Administration it was 102%(this is still gross.) And obviously a further increase is a bad thing, we're looking at being Japan if we're not careful.

There's two ways to reduce Debt-to-GDP. A: Cut spending(no one will agree, as you noted) or B: The productivity outweighs the spending. IE: I invest 5 dollars, I make 25 dollars to get a +20. The problem with MOST of our federal programs is that they spend money, but they don't invest money(IE: Welfare does not actually make money. It stabilizes the poor(and not even that, I compare it to an IV). They waste money.

Congress is the worst spender in human history. Because they believe the money's free, and their utility of said free money is simply laughable.

 

I just checked the tax cut one because it didn't seem right. It wasn't. Obama cut taxes more than Bush in his first term. His second - the payroll tax holiday was a biggie for the middle class.

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...287/obama-vs-bush-whos-the-bigger-tax-cutter/

 

Oh, it says "national debt tops $21 trillion," not drops $21 trillion.

I was going to go into an argument that the debt dropped because, as of late, Russia and China are cashing out their bonds. Bonds are debt, and a reduction in the number of bonds lowers the debt. But that's not happening, I misread the title.

So I misread the title, big deal! Well, I still think that stands as a valid way to pay off the national debt, so I'm still mentioning it.

 

It doesn't matter if there is a D or an R by their name; they spend like a thief with a stolen credit card.

 

America's and many other countries national debt hit the point of no return after the collapse of 2010. Bailing out the banks and sorting the economies out wrecked financies.

So we can all play the Obama and Trump blame game but the **** up started decades ago with poor financial regulation.

The interest alone cost umpteen millions and billions. The yearly interest on the UK's national debt is greater than the yearly NHS wage bill.

The only way to bring the debt down would be to severely cut spending, half public sector workers and increase tax. The economy will plummet as a result.

The damage is done.

 

Libs are responsible for most of the debt. The big government nanny state isn't cheap too operate.

But the cost will be paid by our grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Ha! Screw 'em.

 

correction: Republicans are largely responsible for the debt

not surprisingly, the right wing only concerns itself with it when it is a Democrat in the White House

 

The only item where Republicans advocate more spending is the military, which is less than 20% of the federal budget. Democrats champion increases in social spending, which is more than 80% of the federal budget.

 

lol...obamas debt surpasses any human in mankinds recorded history. When Trump surpasses Obama then and only then can the left open their yaps with integrity.

 

Ahh, but the military is 60% of the discretionary budget. The others are mandated by law.

 

your fellow Republicans reduced taxes for the wealthy - that also helped increase the debt
don't blame Obama for that

 

The military isn't discretionary, unless you don't mind speaking Chinese and having Chicago renamed Chairman Mao City.

 

Dissolve the military industrial complex, end all overseas tax shelters, and restore tax rates to the amounts they were before Reagan. That will solve your debt concerns.

 

Republicans have wanted to get entitlement spending under control for generations. But they can't do it alone, and the Dems will never assist. The Dems demagogue the issue when Republicans propose a reduction in the rate of growth and the Dems call it a "cut".

 

Are they really 4 or 5 times as good at it as we are?
I don't think so.

 

Yes, let's get rid of the military. It's not like any of our enemies would take advantage of that situation.

I have a better idea: let's get entitlements under control.

 

I think trump said national debt
Maybe he meant what he said
In which case he is unbelievably stupid

Maybe he meant deficit onstead of debt
If so, either he does not know the difference, or it was a simple mistake
In which case it is fair to ask anout trumps plan to eliminate the deficit. I have not seen any such plan, and un fact we seem to be going in the opposite direction

This in turn raises a range of other questions. Like did trump ever have a plan to eliminate the Deficit. If so, what is the plan? If not, was he pkaying us for suckers? And regardless, do his supporters actually care?

 

Just today a report came out of he Pentagon saying the Chinese Air Force is now practicing for bombing missions in the U.S. They're getting aggressive.

 

Bingo!

 

What, Guam?
We are the ones with military power spread out across the globe. China's are mostly defensive.
I'm sure they aren't real happy with the aircraft carriers running up and down their coast either.

 

We stay in international waters, or what's left of them. China is building islands in international waters for their military bases. Then they claim the surrounding ocean as "Chinese territory".

Yes, I suppose their new training missions in preparation for an attack on the North American continent is purely defensive.

 

People misspeak themselves all the time.

 

But from the way they post and operate the nation's MSM, that's precisely what most leftists do seem to want.