Unfinished receivers, lets some get around the law

An interesting dilemma that is providing me some food for thought.

One can buy an unfinished AR lower receiver online. These seem to be billed as 80% completed or 95% completed. There is no FFL, background check, or anything else needed. Once purchased, they can be finished with a common drill press, and most come with the necessary alignment jigs. Below is a picture of one I found online.



Everything else you need to build an AR can be found online almost anywhere. Barrels, magazine release, the internal workings. Nothing is unobtainable.

The end result is a gun, a potentially very deadly gun that can be had by anyone with a credit card and an internet connection.

So I am tossed between several points here.

On one hand, I find the machining and fabrication fascinating, and using something such as a mill one could easily do a fairly professional job finishing up one of these. As an AR15 owner myself, I recognize the appeal of building a decent quality one at low cost.

On the other hand, there are segments of this society that simply should not have access to such things. Both criminals and the mentally unfit.

As a bit of a gun nut myself, I loathe to institute more gun regulations, as the current ones are woefully unenforced. But should we recommend regulating these? I am not sure the answer is so simple.


More at the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...c39e9e-da51-11e3-bda1-9b46b2066796_story.html

t was John Zawahri’s failure to pass a background check that prevented him from buying a firearm in California several years ago.

So the 23-year-old obtained an “unfinished receiver,” the metal piece that holds the critical mechanisms that allow guns to fire, and built an assault rifle himself. Last summer, he went on a rampage at a college in Southern California, firing about 100 rounds and killing five people before police fatally shot him.

Zawahri’s assault became one of the most notorious cases involving unfinished receivers, which are unregulated and have become readily available for purchase online and at some gun stores. Officials from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives view the spread of the receivers as an effort to get around strict gun-control laws, particularly in California. They also acknowledge that they have no idea how many of the components have been made and sold.

“That is the million-dollar question,” said Joseph M. Riehl, the special agent in charge of the ATF’s San Francisco office. “We know for sure there are tens of thousands, just in California.”

The sale of unfinished receivers, also called “blanks” or “80 percent lower receivers,” is one of the most daunting challenges for law enforcement officials tasked with enforcing firearms regulations. There are no sales records of unfinished receivers, as there are for ordinary gun sales, which means the ATF cannot check with stores for information about buyers when a gun is used in a crime. And because the receivers bear no serial numbers or other markings that would indicate where they were manufactured, guns made with them can’t be traced back to their owners if they are found at a crime scene.

California authorities struggled to figure out how Zawahri had obtained his AR-15-style semiautomatic assault rifle.

Unfinished receivers generally are formed pieces of metal, available for purchase for $60 to $250. They’re legal, but there is no real use for them other than as the lower part of a firearm.

Converting them into firearms is relatively simple: use a drill press to create holes in the receivers, well out certain areas and then combine the pieces with other parts to make a fully functioning semiautomatic rifle. The process can take one to seven hours, depending on skill level.

ATF officials say gun enthusiasts are effectively exploiting a loophole in the law designed to regulate firearms. Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, it is illegal for an unlicensed person to make a firearm for sale or distribution. Vendors, however, say that because the receivers are not finished, they are not firearms and therefore are legal to sell and distribute.

“It is absolutely the right of every American to defend themselves and to keep and bear arms,” said Dimitri Karras, who sells unfinished receivers over the Internet and at his store in Oceanside, Calif. “This is a channel for them to do that.”

 

You can always write your Congressmen and get legislation passed.

 

There should be no restriction on a law abiding citizen owning an AR-15.

I say to any Liberal / Authoritarian looking to deprive us of our God given right to bear arms.... screw off you beta male losers. What a bunch of damn sheep.

 

the question is just how far do we go in order to give us our false sense of security. for each "better mouse trap" we devise, the mice just get a little smarter and find another way to the cheese.

 

Show me in the Bible where it says you have a right to carry an AR-15.

 

You need to read the Federalist Papers and the writings of the founders. Would you like some quotes?

It is nice you wanted to go right to the Bible.

 

You mentioned God given right. Show me in the bible where it says that. Not what a bunch of politicians said.

 

"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
- George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster

"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
- James Madison

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison

"The ultimate authority resides in the people alone."
- James Madison

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."
- Richard Henry Lee

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker

"... arms ... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.... Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them."
- Thomas Paine

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

" ... for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton

 

It has nothing to do with the bible or religion, god-given in his post can be switched with natural rights... rights one has just from existing and cannot be taken away except by force. This includes the right to defends oneself and the AR-15 is an effective way to do this. Other natural rights include right to ones labor, right to property, right to speech and expression, right to free association, and finally life. All of these naturally exist and shouldn't be impeded on by the government unless someones natural rights are impeding on the rights of others. For instance a gun can be used to defend ones self, but not a nuke. As the nuke would destroy far more than just the threat violating the defender's rights. Many innocents would have their natural right to life taken from them forcefully. Thus nuke ownership is a no-no.

Religious people sometimes say god-given, but any sane person would not argue that people have natural rights whether you believe in god or not. Don't turn it into some religious argument when thats not what it is about or how it was meant.

 

All I want is for the poster to be factual. What you say I would tend to agree with. He should just take the religious aspect out of it.

 

Freedom of expression... natural right. You may not like it but it doesn't violate any of your natural rights. My suggestion Get over it! Many more troubling things in life to deal with. If you can't handle one hyphenated expression... well you may have problems.

 

What's God got to do with this outdated tosh?

 

I disagree with his viewpoint plain and simple.

 

Looks like it could be a loophole. But then private sales are too, I guess.....because there is no background check there either.

 

Do you accept the Bible as law?

 

And theres that slippery slope mac7.....

 

How many murders have they connected to these fire arms ? Less than .001 percent ?

 

Gee don't criminals have internet access? Is this not making it too easy for the criminal faction to own a gun?


America is in an arms race with itself - criminals versus citizens.

 

Gee don't criminals have internet access? Is this not making it too easy for the criminal faction to own a gun?


America is in an arms race with itself - criminals versus citizens. Funny thing is this. Is NOT happening elsewhere

 

Well so far the Left has not yet managed to spiritual neuter enough of our citizens in order to disarm them while simultaneously doing absolutely nothing to disarm the criminals . . . but they are ah workin' on it. So have some patience. If it's a nation of serfs you want the U.S. to turn into then it looks like it's just a matter of time.

 

And the right in America have done what to assist this endeavour??

In Australia, UK and elsewhere it is not easy to buy a gun - even if you did purchase it over the internet they would stop it at customs. Why does America make it so easy to buy guns?

 

Well we keep putting criminals in prison and leftwingers keep letting them out. Stop and Frisk was a success in New York and then leftwingers shut that down in sympathy with the criminals. Sigh . . . so it goes.

 

It is also legal for you to make one from scratch. My understanding is that it's limited to one per year, cannot be sold, given away, or in any other manner become owned by another person, and upon your death has to be destroyed. Also I'm assuming it requires some serious tools and skills that I, for one, do not possess. But a friend of mine does, I may actually do one just for (*)(*)(*)(*)s and giggles.

Legally the lower is considered a firearm. Uppers are not. Of course, neither is useful for anything without the other.

 

"We hold these truth's to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Notice they said "Creator". Not God. Not Jesus. Not Allah. Not the Big Bang. They were ambiguous intentionally, so that no matter what or who you, or me, or anyone else thinks created us, we are born with unalienable Rights. Among these is Life, and the intrinsic ability to defend your Life. Owning a defensive weapon, therefore, is an unalienable Right. The debate about "what the Second Amendment means" is silly, because even if there were NO Second Amendment, we STILL have the unalienable Right to own a defensive weapon.

 

Not according to the OP who maintains its a God-given right to own an AR-15.