We are moving beyond the torture that GBush, Jesus, and Mohammad approved of.

If his "plan" is to damn them, then he has no plan for my eternal happiness. Laughing at the fate of my loved ones is just more proof that your faith has declared everyone I love to be an enemy. How unfortunate. A man who dedicated his life to reforming prisoners is damned, because he chose the wrong God to revere. A man who literally sacrificed his life to save his fellow soldiers is doomed to eternal torture for failing to proclaim the right dogma. A woman who dedicated her life to serving others will burn for eternity for being too much of a hippy. Too bad she loved a woman instead of a man. I'm sorry, but I have very little regret in failing to worship the demon that would torture such people.

 

1) so members of all those other faiths are really worshipping Yahweh? in that case, why are they sent to hell?

2) oh riiiiight .... god has a plan. well that instantly removes all that annoying angst about eternally suffering loved ones. leaving you free to focus on your own skin, as per the standard.

 

So because you care about the truth, and you don't want to see Christians look like fools (believing it was a worldwide flood), if you had Jesus' super-powers you'd have educated the world, clearly, concisely, in the last 2000 years, that it was only a local flood like you claim, right? So therefore they'd have updated the Bible with the accurate info, of course. I would have, how about you, Spooky?

 

It would make sense that God would appeal to different cultures in different ways. It's not about what name you call him by bit about your faith.

That would save the majority of the people who have ever lived.

 

Because Yahweh is so sick, so sadistic, so morally warped, that he'll even TORTURE HIS OWN SON. A sick SOB, to be sure. I read that Saddam had his youngest son tortured at one point, so I think Yahweh and Saddam are quite similar. But Saddam did not kill 99.9999999% of all innocent animals in a flood, so I'm gonna have to say that Saddam is a bit nicer than Jesus' dad was.

 

As most atheists do, you are focusing on details instead of the message. I gave you a very plausible explanation.

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God didn't sacrifice anyone. Jesus made the choice to come down and sacrifice himself.

 

But you're better than crank, right, so apparently you get eternal paradise, but crank gets tortured forever? Wouldn't it be better if it was based on morality and good works, and not on which invisible unproven long-dead super-hero one happens to be born into picking?
Spooky, I bet YOU could devise a more fair, more just, more compassionate system than your "god" did. I bet your children are creative enough to do that, don't you agree?

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So JESUS IS GOD, then! So Jesus is actually the one for all the atrocities in the OT. How the hell could you follow a monster like that!?

 

I am no better than anyone and Jesus specifically says you will not go to heaven based on works.

 

Jesus' message was one of hatred of 70% of the entire human population (the % that are non-Christians.) Not a good message.

 

Everyone dies......it doesn't matter how you go, God just tells us to be prepared.

 

Of course he doesn't, it's all about him, all about his ego, "I am the way, and the truth and the blah blah blah"...me, me, me, it's all about me....he makes Mohammad Ali and Donald Trump look like they have small egos, by comparison.
"Do good works? Nah, you satisfying my ego by blindly worshipping me is more important than helping other people!"

 

And the muslims will tell you accept muhammed or burn. The Mormons will say accept Smith or burn. So somebody of faith is burning either way. Faith doesn't save you unless you happen to choose correctly. And choosing correctly primarily depends on the time and place you're born. What kind of choice is that? It's more like torture roulette.

Not sure what this argument has to do with the immorality of hell, unless you're assuming god needs to send sinners to hell in order to buy information from the devil or something.

That's not pandora's box so much as acknowledging that morality is not black and white. Context always matters. Is theft wrong? Generally yes. Is theft to save a life wrong? Not on balance.

 

His "word" was passed down, verbally, over 40 to 80 years (years!), so obviously we don't even really know what he said, as it was likely added to, removed, changed, to suit the religious power brokers and their agendas. The fool should have said "write this down....." before every big speech. I think my pet turtle is smarter than Jesus.

 

As a Christian you will help other people.

But I have no interest in trying to convert you so do as you wish.

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So you don't think a being that could create an entire universe could put together a simple book? Do you think he is up there in heaven going, "damn.....don't write that, it wasn't what I wanted to say"!

Hahahahaja

 

PS I appreciate the large amount of patience that you've shown towards me over the years, even though I try to destroy your entire world view with every post. I admire you for that, Spooky.

 

I would think an all-powerful being would not have as his #1 book a book that has 492 internal contradictions in it: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

If your family members created a book, wanting to make it the best book of all time, are they capable of creating a book that has less than 492 internal contradictions in it, Spooky?

 

I admire you also. I enjoy our debates and you are very knowledgable.

 

I can and have refuted every so called contradiction. Remember that most of the bible is up to interpretation which is brilliant writing.

But feel free to bring one up and I will show you.

 

The two geneologies don't match up with each other. Ready, go!

 

When I was a former Christian (I'm not saying Christians are violent, just that when someone would challenge my faith I'd get upset) I'd probably have wanted to KILL someone like "Freedomseeker" who condemned my god - but you are super cool about it.

 

no, it makes him a b@stard, because he tortures them for worshipping the form (of himself) he presented to them.

 

is there no part of you that can see how amoral such a system is?

every single thing which every human being has done to help others is an act of works.

 

I was saved and it lasted for a few years and then I started asking questions and became a hardcore atheist. Eventually God brought me back but I won't ever judge anyone for not believing.

 

You are more compassionate, and less judgemental than "god" then, because "god" will indeed (allegedly) "judge anyone for not believing." I believe in you and your goodness more than I believe in "god/Jesus".

 

All I can do is take care of myself and pray for others. (Hint)

I have plenty of non believer friends and they are all wonderful people. They don't pester me about my religion and I don't bring it up unless they ask me. There doesn't need to be hate involved anywhere but maybe in some way God will work through me, I just don't know but I live my normal life.