Well the socialized medicine death panel did their dirty deed in England

I see you have changed from big Government controlled healthcare to big government. You are quite right our government protects the rights of every individual I have never argued that, in fact I have consistently said this is an argument about the rights of the child.

Now again can you show any evidence to back up your assertion that the doctors at GOSH were acting politically and you know what examination was required for the child.

 

"Righties" are all about politics! Who knows which one of our OPINIONS are correct!

 

Yet another unresponsive evasive reply. IOW, you choose to avoid admitting the obvious truth a doctor does not have to "visit" a patient to know every detail of his condition.
Why are you being so evasive? Pure politics.

 

Stop! pissing and whining about this baby as if you really care about his well being, because if you really did, you'd be outraged at the children that have been killed and maimed by American bombs dropped on Iraq and Afghanistan from the Wars GW Bush started.

 

LOL! You think only hyper political "righties" disagree with hyper political "lefties".
In fact, virtually all ordinary human beings, "left" to "right", are now very afraid of Big Government .

Your abusive authoritarian Big Government NHS has justified their fears,

 

You "feel" I am politically motivated
You "feel" the doctor never needed to examine the child
You "feel virtually everybody is afraid of big government
You "feel" I am avoiding an obvious truth that you "feel"
But you provide no evidence to back up your "feelings".
"feelings nothing more than feelings"
I am sorry, I have little interest in your "feelings". Again I "feel" there is nothing left to discuss.

 

More obvious evasion. Just read your own posts. There is nothing subtle there - you are all about the politics.
That is why you are here. Feelings have nothing to do with it.

You are entrenched in your UK national political dogma. That is why you will not admit the obvious truth - doctors no longer need to visit patients to know every detail of their condition. Why pretend that you do not know this? Pure politics.

 

The irony is that those who exploit this tragedy and pretend to know all the pertinent data in an attempt to prop up their ideological agenda have no problem with such babies in the US being routinely excluded from insurance coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

 

Such hypocrisy, this whole topic has been misrepresented to further the agenda of anti-single payer healthcare in the US. Trump himself tried to interfere for political gain. The only people who really care about Charlie's rights are the GOSH doctors and the courts. Everyone else is self interested and using Charlie as a political pawn.

 

More nonsense. Only the parents have any sincere interest in the child. The rest is just political posturing.

 

Ignorant refusal to understand the truth.

 

And you would be outraged by the millions killed by abortion doctors at Planned Parenthood.

 

Actually I very rarely get involved with internal US politics on this forum because,

A. I do not really understand how all your checks and balances work.
B. It is not really any of my business.

I got involved in this debate because so many lies were being told about the UK and in particular lies about one of the best Children's Hospitals in the world. Great Ormand Street. I have pointed out that this is not a debate about private v public health care. I have backed up what I have written with evidence. I have acknowledged to you on another thread that our countries have a different attitude to children's rights. We have a different attitude towards government. I am very happy with the way our NHS works, it is not perfect by a long way and I am sure there are improvements that can be made. You appear to want to argue against our healthcare system and in some circumstances make things up or give political motives that are just not there.
As an observation, I think this is often the way US politics works, rather than show the positives Americans accentuate the negatives. But Trump did this........ or but Hillary did that............... Again this is just my opinion.

Now I do not know why the GOSH doctors required the US doctor to examine the child in person, I have never claimed I did. You on the other hand claim he did not need to examine the child in person. Ok if you wish to claim that, provide evidence, it is very simple. In the meantime I will stick to what the world class doctors at GOSH opinion and ignore yours.

 

hmm... how interesting, a conversation of healthcare and morality.

Babies were being turned back and dying when hospitals refused to treat them because they were uninsured. This is why Reagan signed EMTALA into law.

people with pre-existing conditions were f'd over, this is why ACA came to be.

Free markets have absolutely no moral high ground here so this argument has no merit to it. Do you want to argue a free market system is better? go ahead but claiming moral high ground is intellectually dishonest and hypocritical. Some of the biggest moral abuses come from free enterprise.

 

babies aren't killed in an abortion

 

Funny how when 45,000 Americans died every year due to lack of health care thanks to Republican death panels, the right wing showed no concern for the victims of their holocaust.

 

Again please show where right here, in this very thread I said that the child was brain dead? Looks like you simply made that up about me, then tried to take me to task based on your imagination!

 

No, I'm taking you to task for basing your arguments justifying opposing treatment for a seriously ill child based upon the claim that it is cruel and unusual to continue hope with a new treatment because there are - somehow - the 'best interests' of the child in mind.

There aren't any 'best interests' for Charlie Gard in denying at least a chance of treatment that would have been paid for via private donations. Your fellow liberals claimed that he was brain dead, numerous times - and you said nothing whatsoever to counter the claims:

Here are the FACTS about Charlie Gard

There are more.

Where did these progs get this notion?

Your argument has morphed as more facts have become available. There is no justification to block treatment on the basis of the baby feeling pain if they're 'brain dead', or 'vegetative', as - as another example - Peppermint Twist claimed.

But that was the argument, and you had no interest in countering it. The State serves at the behest of the people, and the people definitively declared - with their pocketbooks - that they wanted to give Charlie Gard and his family this last chance, if for no other reason than to further science and the ability in the future to more effectively treat for this condition.

But you don't want what the people want.

 

So now you have morphed your argument as you made up what I said. I am responsible for what I have said, you made a claim, it was wrong. If you wish to argue against the points I made, do so.
It is an interesting debating style, if you cannot argue the points, invent them!

 

Don't tell me you actually believe that the Republican party is really Pro Life, because if you do, I want to sell you some swamp land in Florida. Republicans say they are Pro Life, because it got them a lot of votes from the Christian right and they're only concerned with babies at the moment of conception to the moment before it comes out it's mothers birth canal, after that it's Sorry! kid that you were born to homeless parents with no health insurance, but you're on your own now.

 

You know this is not the 19th century.

So, again, why are you disingenuously pretending that you do not know that doctors do not have to "visit" patients to know every detail of their condition? Pure politics blocks you from admitting the truth. It is not subtle.

 

More empty ad hominem nonsense.

 

They have no idea how repulsive and frightening their positions are to ordinary human beings.

 

You stated the death panel was only looking out for the child's rights, did you not?

 

The death panel b'crats are only worried about the money