What do Conservatives have to offer America?

Small government is the basic principle this nation was founded on. It’s also the basic principle of conservatism.

 

Why do you equate/confuse conservatives with "Red Establishment"?

 

The basic principle on which this nation was founded was that individual liberty is "Above" the legitimate authority of Gov't = limited Gov't power.

The Republican Establishment loves Big Gov't, Big Gov't spending and Big deficits and wealth redistribution. They hate limited Gov't power and hate individual liberty.

What the conservative party claims to stand for - and what the DO stand for - are two different things. Most Republicans do not even know what Republicanism is .. never mind uphold the principles of Republicanism.

Jefferson would not recognize today's Republican party as having any respect for the principles he put forward.

Would you like a bunch of examples ... since you seem to have forgotten those provided to you in previous threads ?

 

Because conservatives keep electing and supporting the policies of the Red Establishment (same policies of Blue Establishment for the most part).

A conservative can cry "I hate big Gov't" all he likes. What good does this platitude do if they keep re-electing politicians that love Big Gov't, wealth redistribution and big gov't spending and who hate the founding principle such as "Limited Gov't Power" .. that individual liberty is 'above" the legitimate authority of Gov't.

 

We only have two choices. The Republican Party is far closer to the beliefs of the Founding Fathers than the Democrat Party. It’s not even close.

Either way, the sh-t is going to hit the fan eventually. Because of the size of federal government, it’s going to collapse under its own weight. With Democrats in control, the crash will come sooner than with Republicans in control. The end result will be the same. Unfortunately, there is no third option and there never will be.

 

So, not because of any actual similarity in the ideology of the two groups, just guilt by association.
As such your argument fails

 

We do not only have two choices. People should start voting in independents more often. Even voting for a Red or Blue candidate is fine so long as this candidate has a "Proven Track Record" of understanding Republicanism/Classical Liberalism.

Your "closer to the beliefs of the founders" is a complete nonsense statement.
1) How ? In what way is Red closer to the beliefs of the founders than Blue ?
2) Is this significant ? Just because Pol Pot may have been closer to the beliefs than the founders than Stalin ... does this legitimize voting for Pol Pot ?

There is almost no difference between Red and Blue establishment when it comes to most of the significant issues.

Was it Blue that made it our "Patriotic Duty" to trade essential liberty for security over a risk of harm that was 400 times less than the Risk of harm from "walking" ? NOPE ... it was however Blue that change the name of the act to the equally Orwellian doublespeak "freedom act".

Was it Blue that initiated the War on Pot ? - they maintained it but it was Red that did the initiation.

Is it Blue that is trying to make laws on the basis of theocratic instincts ? Nope .. they make law on the basis of an equally evil ideology called Utilitarianism ... BOTH of which are an anathema to the founding principles and the opposite of a Constitutional Republic.

Was it Blue that has run the biggest deficits (starting with Carter) and increased Gov't spending the most ? ... Nope .. that would be Red .. hands down.

I am just getting started but these should do for now.

 

Your opinions are wrong when it comes to acts passed by congress during an opposing president's term. The original intent was to work together to get things done and that often involves compromising positions in order to agree on more important issues at the time.

Who's side are you on? There's only 2 REAL CHOICES. But the PEOPLE have the power.

The PEOPLE have voted AGAINST democrats SINCE 2010! They've lost over a 1000+ seats across the board at local, state, and federal levels of power. Dems have fundamental problems that the PEOPLE don't want in office.

And yet dems have NOT CHANGED one bit in order to win elections again. If anything, they moved further left obviously because they are counting on the media brainwashing people to vote them back into office again WITHOUT changing political policies and moving toward the CENTER, to win again.

Steve

 

It is not guilt by association - what a bunch of BS. When someone votes for a Politician who has supported evil legislation - one is supporting that legislation - regardless of whether or not one agrees with that legislation.

 

My statement stands - your argument rests on association, rather than a meaningful comparison of ideology.
Stop being lazy.

 

What does anything in your post have to do with any of the specific examples given in my post.

What I stated was not "OPINION". I gave specific factual examples.

The claim that the people have the power .. in a case where there is only two real choices .. and those choices are "Stalin or Mao" is false.

 

Specifically, that I know of, Reagan had to deal with a democrat congress which passed spending bills.

But even the recent Omnibus Spending Bill was passed in the Senate by DEMS! More than HALF of senate (R)s voted against it, and 5 or 6 senate dems voted against it. I can show the list of who voted against if you insist.

Dems have a HISTORY of marching together in lock-step, for their PARTY!

Steve

 

What on earth are you talking about. You are the lazy one. All you are doing is crying "NO NO NO" as if this constitutes an argument.

Here is some ideological comparison for your reading pleasure.

There is almost no difference between Red and Blue establishment when it comes to most of the significant issues.

Was it Blue that made it our "Patriotic Duty" to trade essential liberty for security over a risk of harm that was 400 times less than the Risk of harm from "walking" ? NOPE ... it was however Blue that change the name of the act to the equally Orwellian doublespeak "freedom act".

Was it Blue that initiated the War on Pot ? - they maintained it but it was Red that did the initiation.

Is it Blue that is trying to make laws on the basis of theocratic instincts ? Nope .. they make law on the basis of an equally evil ideology called Utilitarianism ... BOTH of which are an anathema to the founding principles and the opposite of a Constitutional Republic.

Was it Blue that has run the biggest deficits (starting with Carter) and increased Gov't spending the most ? ... Nope .. that would be Red .. hands down.

 

Your task is to compare the specific ideology of conservatives and the "Red Establishment", as you argue they are the same.
If you cannot, your point is unsound .
Get busy.

 

So you are claiming that congress "forced" Reagan to run the massive deficits that he did - against his will ? Is this your claim ... that Red had nothing to do with it ... it was all Blue. It was Blue that forced Reagan to cut taxes - against his will ? Is this what you are saying ?

Blue supported Bush's Patriot act as well - so I suppose this was also done against the will of Bush and the Republican Congress.

What Omnibus spending bill are you referring to ? Did half of the Senate (R)'s vote against the increase in military spending ?

When has the Republican Establishment done anything to change the systemic issues inherent in our healthcare system.

How many Republicans supported Ron Paul's proposed changes to FISA ?

Red and Blue establishment are on the same page in relation to all but the "Hot button issues" which serve only to keep the people divided .. to keep them voting for the same establishment clowns.

 

Cherry picking my post ... taking out the parts that compared specific ideology ... and then pretending I did not is lame - o - rama.

 

Ah - you know you aren't up the challenge.
Thus, I accept your concession of the point.

 

DON'T CHANGE MY WORDS!

Steve

 

This is an absolute falsehood.
Nowhere did you even try to compare/contrast the ideologies of conservatives and the "Red Establishment".

 

I did not change your words. You were arguing that it was the Dem's fault for Reagan's spending problem. This implies that Reagan and the Republican congress was not responsible does it not ?

Further.. you completely failed to respond to the other examples given.

Red and Blue establishment are the same on most of the significant issues - issues significant to the Establishment.

 

Yes I did ... just because you cherry picked the contrasting of ideologies out of my post does not mean I did not post them.

 

You are fully aware of the fact you cannot cite the post where you compared and contrasted the ideologies of conservatives and the "Red Establishment", and the fact you cannot quote the text you posted to that effect.

 

Quit blubbering nonsense. I gave a number of examples .. since you clearly were overwhelmed ... I will limit it to one example.

Red claims to be the party of "Fiscal Conservatism" ... yet the leaders they elect spend money like princesses with credit cards.

The latest Red Budget (where Republicans control both houses and the White House) is the latest example of Red's love of Big Gov't and Big Gov't spending.

This should have been no surprise because this is what Red always does - at least since (and including) Reagan.

 

I did in fact address it. You just don't like reading the truth for once.

The PEOPLE have voted AGAINST democrats SINCE 2010! They've lost over a 1000+ seats across the board at local, state, and federal levels of power. Dems have fundamental problems that the PEOPLE don't want in office.

And yet dems have NOT CHANGED one bit in order to win elections again. If anything, they moved further left obviously because they are counting on the media brainwashing people to vote them back into office again WITHOUT changing political policies and moving toward the CENTER, to win again.

Dems have a HISTORY of marching in lock-step together against will of the PEOPLE, and for their PARTY! That's WHY dems keep losing elections! Republicans are working for what their constituents want and is WHY they keep getting elected.


Steve

 

The worst anyone had to offer was defeated in 2016. We should all be
grateful that Bill Clinton's wife will never become President.