What is fascism...

That an extremist right-wing ideology like fascism can be a result of left wing ideology is obvious nonsense. Sounds like a whole lot of desperate projection to me.

 

Fascists are not for big government. In fact, most fascist regimes have ONE dictator and a very small inner circle.

 

Exactly! And this discussion is about ALL the aspects of fascism. As I said three times (this is the fourth) they cannot be isolated if we are talking about fascism. It's the other characteristics that make nationalism "extreme".

The only reason I can think of anybody would want to try to isolate them would be as a desperate attempt to defend fascism.

 

If you say the same response, but it does not in fact address the actual question, why does it matter how many times you give that response?

About 20 years ago or so, I was being trained on selling an Alzhemiers med, and as part of that training, I sat in on a psychiatrist interviewing this dignified old lady with moderate stage dementia. She did everything she could to keep up appearances and hide her growing cognitive deficiencies. She was actually quite clever in how she tried so hard to hide her deficiencies. The doctor pointed to his tie and asked her what that is called. Her response was "I call it beautiful!", which was actually a great attempt to deflect away from the reality that she could not actually answer his question.

Your position in this conversation reminds me a lot of that little old lady. You are going to great lengths to give the appearance that you are answering, but in fact, you are only deflecting from the reality that you are not responding to what is being asked. The primary difference between you and the little old lady is that her obfuscation was adorable. Yours?... not so much.

I will ask once again...If one person says that extreme nationalism exists, and another says it does not, whose subjective interpretation prevails?

 

Because it DOES address the question!!!!!

Question: How can you tell if nationalism is "extreme"
Answer: By the presence or absence of other characteristics like support for authoritarianism, racism, support for freedom of speech or voter suppression or... If one (authoritarianism is mandatory) or several of these ALSO exist, mark that nationalism as "extreme". If none exist, mark it as NOT extreme. Easy!!!

This is the FIFTH (or sixth.. I lost count) time I answer your question. But it looks like it's TOO objective for you. Only reason you would deny I answered it is because it makes it TOO easy to objectively and unequivocally spot fascism for your taste.

 

Autocratic totalitarianism is the inevitable end of any progressive movement even though they do not espouse it in their ideology, and that, while not perfect, is fascist.

 

You're never going to learn that just... sayin'... the first thing that comes to your mind... is not going to make it true.

Absolute nonsense.

1- NO progressive regime in history has ended in autocratic totalitarianism
2- Many progressive regimes have existed for decades (in Europe, for example) and NONE have ended in autocratic totalitarianism
3- None of this has absolutely anything to do with fascism.

Though there is a danger that OUR country, which has had progressive movements in power, might end up in fascist totalitarianism (Trump, DeSantis, Abbott, ...); this is due to the reaction on the right. Not to anything in the progressive movements.

Of course, the only purpose of this nonsense is that you obviously just want to change the subject of this thread.

 

Keep in mind, I am a Cuban American and as of 2016, a registered Democrat. Are you?

 

Yeah, talk about blowing his feeble cover!

If it wasn't already obvious, that last sealed it.

 

You mean the tiny proportion of aristocrats and church funded 'thinkers' of European history, who were privileged enough to sit around thinking fancy thoughts?

They never had enough influence or traction to impose their fancy thoughts on the masses. The times simply didn't allow it. Unfortunately, once we declared ourselves free of the dirty proletariat peasantry in the 20thC, all bets were off. There were enough of us to make it reality .. and as with any ideology, giving it that much power is always going to morph it into some form of fascism or totalitarianism.

 

That doesn't make sense. People extremely want the best for their country?


Your answer was moronic.

 

Its not subjective.

 

.

 

No. I meant progressive movements. Why do you jump into a discussion without even bothering to find out what it's about?

 

I completely agree that the question you quoted doesn't make sense. But try telling that to the poster who asked it. SIX TIMES! And he/she refused to read the answer five times. Looks like the sixth time I answered was the charm

 

So the difference between garden variety nationalism which is "The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals."

LOL...Such silly nonsense. All you have done is take every bogus accusation you make against the right, and conveniently concluded that is how you define extreme nationalism, and oh how tidy, all of those accusations piled into one is also your precise description of Fascism.

I guess by your nonsensical conclusion that I am defending Fascism, that I too must be a Fascist or at minimum a fascist sympathizer. In reality, the only thing I am defending against is your nonsensical not so thinly veiled implications that the American right is somehow fascist in any manner, shape, or form. In truth, the notion is so utterly ridiculous it does not deserve anywhere near this much discussion.

This is nothing other than a disguised version of calling your opponent a Nazi.

 

Hmmm. I see you are once again making one of your patented "say nothing" arguments.

You are the undisputed king of the "yes you are"..."no I'm not" style of debate that everyone finds so fascinating and enlightening.

 

No! It's "loyalty and devotion to a nation". Plain and simple. If that loyalty and devotion is excessive (as explained in my multiple responses to your question), then it's fascism.

But it looks like you finally READ my answer. That's progress. And it only took me repeating it six times!

As for the definition of fascism, I quoted one. All the ones I have seen indicate pretty much the same characteristics I listed. And as for why you are trying to change the subject in this discussion about fascism, I have stated no opinion. So the conclusion you state is yours and yours alone. I'm not stating whether I agree or disagree with it. But I'll just say I don't think you are a fascist. However, the explanation I gave might have evoked some memory of a policy you supported and you didn't, until now, realize it was fascist. Just a theory....

 

You mean you finally connected the dots to your nonsensically teased and massaged logic? Yes, I suppose you did.

The right is a bunch of Nazi's blah blah blah. Deep down, I and others are just uncomfortable because you are getting so close to cracking the code.....we get it.

Long live Fascism!!!

 

Following the definition I gave, a 10 year old could objectively conclude whether or not there is excessive nationalism. Or, more importantly (and more relevant to the topic of this thread), whether an action is fascist or not.

 

I disagree...

 

You figured us out. Long live Fascism!

 

We would have gotten away with it too if not for your incessant meddling!

 

First communism as dreamed of by marks does not currently exist, has never existed and in fact cannot exist among human beings because human beings are not social insects.

At heart socialism and Fascism differ only in their degree of hatred for the petite bourgeoisie and the honesty of the policies by which they try to control each and every human interaction. Socialist will, if given a full head of steam, simply exterminate business and run it directly themselves. Fascists on the other hand are quite willing to leave in place the appearance of private property, while so micro managing everything through an increasingly corrupt and venal administrative state that business folk are little more than hunk of connective tissue between said administrative state and everyone else. that the government blames whenever the wheels run off.

 

That would be communism, and you just stated that communism cannot exist.

Problem solved!

At least THAT problem, because fascism CAN and DOES exist.

DeSantis is not going to like that you said that.