What Makes Government So Special?

It didn't in Nazi Germany.

 

They didn't have the same political system as us. When I use the term majority, I'm talking about the voting majority. If some fascist dictators took away our rights to vote and built their own army up to control America, then I'd start comparing us to Nazi Germany. But right now, just because you can't smoke weed and have to pay taxes does not make us Nazi's, lol.

 

Yeah, the majority voted the Nazis in.

 

S'okay. Mine is a zen kind of motion -- I need only remain still, for I am precisely where I ought to be.

 

Government has the power of armed coercion.

 

Why do people talk about the Government like they are not apart of it? I view the Government as simply people like myself that make educated decisions to keep society and the economy going. It's impossible to make 310 million people happy. I just don't get why people talk like the Government is like an alien who's only job is to destroy the world and oppress it's obviously non-oppressed people.

 

"I'm from the federal government and am here to help."

 

Because we're not a part of it. Government is no alien. It is simply a collection of individuals who have convinced the rest of us that they can do things most people would find reprehensible because they have derived "authority" in some sort of way. In the past it was "divine" authority from God. Now it is authority from "the people" aka "the majority's will."

 

We are apart of the Government, since we vote the Government in. And I view the Government as an entity that creates much needed organization for society to function most efficiently. I don't get what other alternatives you have to organize a country with out a Government. Unless of course you are one of those crazy Libertarian's that just believe for no apparent reason that everything works just fine with out Government, lol.

 

Who is "we"? A lot of people certainly have not voted the government in.

The government is the only entity that society recognizes as legitimate for it to use the initiation of force. Why?

 

Bull. I was not represented by this government during the first 2 obama years. The democrats had total control and exercised that control to implement policies that would never have been implemented in a divided government. The democrats knew they did not have the support of the people. When the people spoke and elected Scott Brown (who ran on the promise that he would be the 41'st vote which would kill obamccare), the democrats lost total control of the Senate and had to play games to avoid a vote.

Nobody is claiming there should be no government. Thats just ignorant stupidity from brainwashed liberals. Libertarians want a smaller government. Anarchists want no government.

 

"I'm from the local corporate processiong plant and I'm here to assure you your water is safe"

 

Choosing who is in the government does not make us a part of the government. This is true no matter how positively or negatively you view the institution of government. The only case where citizens can be considered part of the government is through direct democracy, or something of the sort (which I do not advocate). Electing those who govern us does not make us governors.

I find that an odd belief to hold, considering it is government that fights wars, government that prohibits people from behaving in certain ways, and government that is inefficient and wasteful. If anything, government is chaotic.

I guess it depends on how you are defining government. You argued previously that we are a part of government, meaning all citizens in the US are a part of their government. If there is no government, then there would be no people, for government is comprised of everyone if you follow through with your previous logic. I define government as the individuals that make the laws that govern everyone else.

 

Choosing not to vote is a vote in itself. We are all part of this society... whether you like the Government or not. And the Government is allowed to use force because society has granted them the ability to enforce our laws. I don't get why you wouldn't want Government to enforce laws by putting criminals behind bars where they belong.

 

The debate should be over what category or classification of action should be punishable by law.

 

Nothing. Well, that's not true; Government is special because it can violate property rights without resistance, and just like organized crime, it is detrimental to liberty and society as a result. You sound like another Rothbardosaurus.

 

What is society but a collection of individuals? There is no society without the individuals that comprise it. And surely there is disagreement in society. What you are essentially saying is that government is allowed to use the initiation of force because a majority of individuals in society say it can. What if the law is unjust? Do violators of unjust laws belong behind bars?

 

It does seem like there needs to be a government, doesn't it? Even if it's only on the extremely small scale, if there was no government, I would have to become the government in my own community. I'm a pretty easygoing person but there are certain rules that I don't permit people to violate no matter what kind of rational argument or emotional appeal they've got. We all have certain rules like this, no matter how peaceable we like to imagine ourselves.

 

Of course not, but we vote in people who we view represent our beliefs in how the country should be ran. So since we have control over who we vote in, we as the majority, do control the Government, and we are apart of the Governance of America. We might not be employed as a Government employee but that does not mean we aren't apart of the Government.

All of this is subjective. I believe all of these things make us function more efficiently. That is why we have a Government! I can vote in people that believe what I believe and you can do the same. It just so happens my beliefs are more mainstream than yours which is why your guy can barely get 1 out of 10 people to vote for him. Once again you are implying that you know how the Government should be ran more than I do.

I meant we are apart of the Government as in we get a choice to vote in those that represent our beliefs. Theoretically the Government who makes those laws that govern everyone else fall under the umbrella of those laws and have to abide by them themselves. If the individuals within the Government were immune to enforcement and could commit any crimes at will without prosecution, than maybe I'd start joining your camp. But they can't, and their sons, daughters, parents, family members, friends, etc all have to abide by the same rules.

 

Notice I said the initiation of force. I don't think using the retaliation of force (using force against people who have used initiatory force against others) is controversial. The initiation of force, however, would typically be viewed as a horrific act if performed by a private individual, but completely legitimate if performed by the government.

Hellz yeah I am! *high-five*

 

The law is the law. If it says you can't do something regardless of how "just" you believe it is, you are breaking the law and you will face the penalty that comes with breaking the law. The problem with typical Libertarian's is that you believe you know what is and isn't "just". You are in a society, this is not your land... it's our land. Gotta live with it.

 

If the person has violated the law then it is legitimate. There has to be structure and enforcement of the law for the law to work. If there was no threat of violence, financial penalty or imprisonment there would be no law.

 

I don't think you can take yourself too seriously here. You wouldn't dream of upholding a law that requires the literal sacrifice of the innocent. There is such a thing as being practical and then there is sanctioning evil. You don't even imply that such a distinction exists.

 

You can ask a hundred people questions on every law and get hundred different answers. That is why we vote, that is why it will never be perfect, and that is why you have to be a realist once and a while and realize being in the Government and making 310 million people happy and making laws that are fair to 310 million people is very difficult to do. Everyone has an opinion on what is right or wrong, how the Government should run the country, how big the Government should be, etc, etc. I don't get why people think there is such a massive conspiracy surrounding the Government and their actions. Almost everything the Government does I can see logically why they do it.

 

Adolf Hitler did everything within the realms of the law. Martin Luther King, Jr. violated the law. Should MLK have been locked up, while Adolf Hitler not prosecuted or face any punishment?