What To Do To Reduce Partisan Dysfunction In Politics

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Meta777, Mar 30, 2018.

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  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't think partisan politics are the problem I think it's people particularly people who view others as horrible people if they disagree. If I disagree with a person about gun control I'm referred to as a baby killer. Instead of just a person who disagrees. And this is the sort of rhetoric that is present in our culture and it will lead to war.
     
  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's something I surprisingly haven't seen talked about much yet in this thread;
    campaign finance laws and the role the current set plays in diluting our democracy.
    I know there are a whole assortment of ideas out there on this one, its weird no one's mentioned any of them yet.
    But what exactly are the better ones do you think when it comes to finding ways to reduce the negative influence that money currently has on our nation's political campaigns? How exactly can we improve things campaign finance-wise, if not with some sort of rules change??

    -Meta
     
  3. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    For one thing, two party combined (without partisan designation) sponsorship of equal-time political ads and debates by corporate entities.

    I also suggest equal yearly party campaign allowances taken from tax monies which may be carried over indefinitely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  4. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like this question! :)

    How do you feel about primaries? That's one place tactical voting is often used.

    IMO, we tend to get much more hyperpartisan candidates in the general election because of primaries. Then, in the general election, the mostly moderate electorate has a choice between two unappealing extremist candidates. Thus we have voter apathy and low turnout. Those candidates, once elected, see compromise as defeat, creating gridlock and ineffective governance.

    I don't know how we get around primaries, but I think they contribute to the partisan dysfunction we are experiencing.
     
  5. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That sort of entrenched duopoly is precisely why we need to Dump FPP Plurality Voting and institute a Ranked Voting system in its place.
    But you're right, its not going to be easy. We can't just vote for people based on what party they're in. For the reasons you stated,
    simply trying to vote in some third party that wants to make voting more fair isn't going to be likely to succeed.
    But when I say, 'vote them out' I don't mean the parties as a whole. I mean the individuals who block progress.
    Because there are going to be those within each party who resonate with what we, the people, tell them to do.
    Get enough people like that into office, while removing the others, and it doesn't matter so much which party they're in.
    So here's what we need to do (in no particular order):
    1. Let our representatives, current and prospective, know what we want. Write letters, make phone calls, protest out in the streets if that's what it takes. If enough people raise the issue, eventually we'll get candidates who run with this as part of their main campaign priorities. And after that, the main stream media as well would hopefully start to take note.
    2. Let everyone else know too. Spread the word that is. Tell your friends, your neighbors,...other posters on this site. Get them all informed. If you see someone lamenting over their poor political options at the ballot, or the rampant gridlock in congress, or the ever-increasing polarization, ask them if they're aware of what causes it. Tell them about the ills of Plurality voting. And clue them in on the alternatives.
    3. When this issue has gained prominence, then as mentioned before, its time to start voting in candidates who publicly come out in support of making the system fair for moderates and third parties. It doesn't matter what party they're in...if the issue is put out into the open, there will likely be moderate candidates from either 'main' party that take it up as their own, so make your pick, and likewise...anyone who impedes change or goes back on their word, vote them out at the soonest opportunity.
    So yeah, it wont be easy, and it'll take time. There will likely be push-back from the more extreme fringes of either party. But I'm sure that those of us who would like to see more moderation in congress and less polarization and gridlock overall make up a majority of the country. So its not impossible, and besides...if we just give up without even trying, then guess who wins.

    -Meta
     
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  6. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    c
    Addendum:

    IMO, campaign are overfunded, and candidates with the most financial backing have an unfair advantage not necessarily related to qualifications or suitability for the position. . . . Budgeted campaigns by party committees SHOULD tend to focus more on their own candidates and less on opposition research (which should be left up to the media independent of political backing).

    Additional funding (especially by PACs and corporate entities) MUST be prohibited to inhibit corruption.
     
  7. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We do have a situation where campaigns are a financial battle... and for the most part, offices are the spoils of that war.
    This is fundamentally opposed to the idea that our votes are the key factors, because our votes are being manipulated by campaigns that are designed to create illusions rather than present facts- with money from various sources, which means they are "buying" all the votes they can gain from that deception.

    Surely we can do better than that... but first, we need to come to terms with what is actually happening, and that can be hard. I think it was Mark Twain that said it is far easier to fool a man that it is to convince him that he has been fooled.
     
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  8. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    . . . . That you and I can agree on THIS is a step in the right direction.

    What may be hard is getting Congress to legislate changes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  9. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a given. They have a lock on the powers that run congress, which is a game beyond the voting process, and a lot of it is driven by money. They are not about to change the game, sacrifice their own edge and benefits because it would be better for the voters.

    Something I have posted several times indicates how strong that is. The only power that can fire (remove from office now) a member of congress, IS congress. If they choose, they could throw out any who violated things like the oath of office, the ethics codes or their fiduciary duty- and I believe that every one of them does that in some degree every day.
    In the last 150 years, they have seen fit to remove TWO such offenders. Apparently, that all they could find.

    The foxes do run the hen-house.
     
  10. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know where you live,
    but here in American where I live, we do in fact operate under a set of laws.

    -Meta
     
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  11. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    ^This. Well said!
     
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that's just because we the voters haven't been all too big on
    making politicians pay a political price for not focusing more on improving elections.
    We havn't been making enough noise about it either imo.

    -Meta
     
  13. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Meta, just a point to consider.
    In a house with weak parents, noise is the normal- kids scream, parents scream... and nothing gets better.
    In a house with strong parents, discipline is done softly but firmly and consistently, and things run smoothly. Nobody is screaming.
    It is the actions we take, not the noise we make, that gets things done.
    Those actions need to be consistent, the purpose and standards non-negotiable, and the consequences of ignoring them predictable.

    Americans seem to prefer yelling and screaming more than improvement.
     
  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    And who enforces them on you?
    Everybody has their own set of rules and self enforces them. It is our nature to get along.
    There is no policeman watching you every moment of every day. You abide by the law because you agree with the law.
    Sometimes you won't agree and will speed in your car. But no one catches you.

    So if you live a good life, laws don't affect you. Because your own rules work well enough.
    And almost all of us do.

    Park your laws where the sun doesn't shine because not everything in my country belongs to the country. A little bit of it is mine. And in my bit, I make the rules.
    Land of the free.
    Stupid rules get ignored. Deal with it.
     
  16. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A district judge I new for many years once told me that the best regulator was the self-regulator, and if everybody did that he would be out of work.
    He said we have laws in part because many refuse to self-regulate, and prisons to keep those people from inflicting harm on others.
    People do not all want to get along- a fair percentage want to take advantage, and consider that it is up to the law to limit how much they can take that way.
    No nation can exist without laws and remain safe for all.

    That is not to say that we don't have stupid laws or unequal enforcement- but that there must be laws that are set out to maintain an order and peaceful interaction among people.
     
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  17. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    and others refuse to stop regulating.
    And their laws don't apply to them. Only to people they don't like.

    Us being peaceful while others rob us.
    Keep your laws mate. Anywhere you own you can rule. But right here, I rule and the people right here prefer my rules to yours As do I.

    Do gooders, do badders, same ****. Jog on by.
     
  18. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    People who consider rules restrictive are those who make rules necessary.
     
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    People who choose to restrict others are what makes violence necessary.
    The goal is freedom, not obedience.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  20. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    So, violence is NECESSARY to protest law enforcement???. . . . Do you really believe that doing away with restrictions would impede crime???

    . . . . Are you posting this from PRISON???
     
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  21. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    And yet in the 20th century governments killed 262,000,000 of their own citizens.

     
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  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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  23. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Quite the opposite. I'm posting this from the land of the free.
    Violence is necessary when people seek to rule over others.

    Law of the jungle.

    No laws no crime.
    Pretty obvious.

    Less laws less crime.
    Less laws, lawyers and lawmakers, less tax. Which is theft.

    When your laws are based upon anti-social behaviour, I may choose to ignore them.
    Restrict yourself, or I will restrict you. You aren't the only person who can make and enforce laws.

    I suggest to you that we'll get along better if we reign our ambitions in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  24. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    I'M DONE, TARZAN!!!
     
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    If the issue is cultural, that has a solution too. Usually cultural issues are most effectively addressed by the two cultures learning about and accepting one another for what they are, and in most cases eventually blending and or merging together. In fact, it could be that the issue we face is in part systemic and in part cultural, though I still think that the systemic factors have a bigger impact. I would even go so far as to say that its very likely that the systemic forces drive a wedge into that cultural rift. For what tends to cause cultural differences in the first place? Isolation? This is exactly what systemically driven polarization leads to...isolation, not just physical, but ideological isolation. I don't believe that the majority of Americans actually actively wish to be far apart from one another in thought though. As for those who explicitly oppose working together to improve the country...I say of them that they are merely a noisy minority I'm sure.

    -Meta
     

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