What will win the god wars? Faith, Fantasy, Facts, or God?

"the Christian god"?

Which Christian god is that?

Athenagoras' Christian god?
Constantine the Great's Christian god?
Marcion of Sinope's Christian god?
One of the Christian Universalists' Christian gods (take your pick)?
Perhaps, some poorly translated Christian god from the Middle Ages?

Or could it be Greatest I am's Christian god?

So many Christian gods to choose from...

Of course, we are genocidal. Regardless of whether we like it or not that's a matter of fact, not opinion.

And what could be more useful to our genocidal species than a genocidal god created in our own image - an all-purpose scapegoat to escape responsibility and accountability for our actions?

In case you haven't figured it out, that's a reflection on us. Not God.

I wouldn't assume the people who created these gods were stupid. It's more likely they didn't care.

So, we're no better than spiders and chickens and hyenas?

I'm not sure I agree with that but maybe I could...

I'll remind you I referred specifically to the West, not the shitholes in other parts of the world where slavery still exists.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think it's obvious that we've evolved not only morally but intellectually on this matter. It's taken a long time but we're shedding the assumptions of natural inequality that existed in Classical Antiquity, Furthermore, being a resident of what was once part of the Antebellum South, I can see how people have evolved over the past 50 to 150 years.

Where did you get that from?

Slaveholders from Ancient Greece and Rome to pre-Civil War America treated their chattel like ****. Many of them treated their livestock better than their slaves.

Sorry, I'm not buyin'....

Our Abolitionists were Christians, too. I presume it was the same in your country, as well.

Slavery and people advocating it for profit, sex or any other form of exploitation are indeed sickening, and unless you're trying to tell me you're a bigot there's no point or use in singling Christians out. The existence and acceptance of slavery has existed worldwide since time immemorial.

 

Strawman fallacy. I don't propose that people disown "gay" children, but I do propose that society continue to value the disappearing nuclear family.

 

You seem to have trouble accepting facts.

 

??

What other option for a safety net do you think could be offered?

To be a slave was often a step up to at least eating and shelter.

I look forward to your suggestion.

Regards
DL

 

Check where you live. There are sex slaves in all major cities, world wide. Some of it is forced and some is voluntary.

Regards
DL

 

Is there a singular reality? I don't think so.
God is real for those who believe.

 

DNA and conditioning is what you are and so are they.

We humans are born following instructions and instincts, just as they so called lesser animals are.

Every DNA based entity would be born thinking itself to be the fittest, and rightly so, and or planning to be. That is why we seek some god to emulate.

What do you see as better in you, given that our bigger brains seem to have us ignoring our own self destruction. The other animals would likely not be that stupid so take care in your reply.

Regards
DL

 

Delusional thinking exists for sure. We all share that trait to some extent.

But belief does not a god make, as only our human minds can attempt to demonstrate such a being. A belief can make an icon but not a working miracle working god.

The Gods of the Gaps are demonstrable by miracle only. Without one of those, only delusional thinking exists.

As to your singular reality. Here it is. There is a god and it is you. Step up.

Regards
DL

 

Almost everything that ordinary people know comes from their beliefs. Faith is obligatory. Certainty is impossible if someone can't believe it.

 

??

If one cannot believe what is certain and true, then he is a sheeple and really stupid.

Perhaps some day that impoverished mind will think.

Faith is idolatry and not wanting to know the truth.

Regards
DL

 

But there does exist one who loves everyone unconditionally. His name is God. No, wait, got that backwards. His name is Dog.

 

Slavery is by definition not voluntary. And voluntary prostitution is a noble profession.

 

As noble as my ass.

Then you will always have a noble job, should you be unfortunate enough to have to become a prostitute.

You will have to live with the mental illness that afflict so many who accept your noble view.

Regards
DL

 

Slavery has never been a safety net, so the entire premise of your question is absurd.

If you were alive and healthy enough to be worth enslaving, I think it's safe to presume you were already taking care of the food and shelter thing.

But if you're looking for an alternative to slavery, I would suggest freedom is the obvious choice.

 

I'm more than that. I would think you are, as well.

Is it?

People seek 'some sort of god' for their own various and different reasons.

Furthernore, there is the matter of how we have been inclined to create a god that emulates us...

I see lots of things better in myself and other people. Call us stupid but our ability to think and act beyond our own primitive survival instincts is one of those things.

 

Nice argument. Oh wait, you did not offer one.

It is absurd to your mind, perhaps, but if you cannot answer what you would offer the slaves as an worthy option, then you show how little thought you want to give to this issue.

Not if it is the freedom to starve to death.

Regards
DL

 

True. All selfish, as it is our selfish gene that pushes us to be the fittest. The leader or god of our tribes are who we all want to displace and take over from. The fittest would want nothing less.

Hmm. Give us an example or two of this.

I do not see it, even as I think I can see where you are going with this.

Regards
DL

 

Come on even atheists cling to their beliefs?

Molrals and values are the same thing.

There is no such thing as gnostic christian.

What is Christian Gnosticism?

Question: "What is Christian Gnosticism?"

Answer: There is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief. The principles of Gnosticism contradict what it means to be a Christian. Therefore, while some forms of Gnosticism may claim to be Christian, they are in fact decidedly non-Christian.

To discredit the idea of any compatibility between Christianity and Gnosticism, one has only to compare their teachings on the main doctrines of the faith. On the matter of salvation, Gnosticism teaches that salvation is gained through the acquisition of divine knowledge which frees one from the illusions of darkness. Although they claim to follow Jesus Christ and His original teachings, Gnostics contradict Him at every turn. Jesus said nothing about salvation through knowledge, but by faith in Him as Savior from sin. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Furthermore, the salvation Christ offers is free and available to everyone (John 3:16), not just a select few who have acquired a special revelation.

Christianity asserts that there is one source of Truth and that is the Bible, the inspired, inerrant Word of the living God, the only infallible rule of faith and practice (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Hebrews 4:12). It is God’s written revelation to mankind and is never superseded by man’s thoughts, ideas, writings, or visions. The Gnostics, on the other hand, use a variety of early heretical writings known as the Gnostic gospels, a collection of forgeries claiming to be “lost books of the Bible.” Thankfully, the early church fathers were nearly unanimous in recognizing these Gnostic scrolls as fraudulent forgeries that espouse false doctrines about Jesus Christ, salvation, God, and every other crucial Christian truth. There are countless contradictions between the Gnostic “gospels” and the Bible. Even when the so-called Christian Gnostics quote from the Bible, they rewrite verses and parts of verses to harmonize with their philosophy, a practice that is strictly forbidden and warned against by Scripture (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32; Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19).

The atheist religion? What would you expect.

What is good? Stalin? We seen what happens when atheists get in power.

None can top the state though. Why do you persist on that course when you know there is nothing worse than the state for murder and genocide

On that point I agree.

Freedom to practice ones religion is essential to humanity.

That has nothing to do with any selfish gene, people discriminate on a huge variety of selfless issues.

After determining their religion is affects them negatively.

But atheists, proponents of and worshipers of secular law exceed all other for immoral acts, look at modern gubmints.

Nonsense, murder is and has been against both secular and religious law since the beginning of time.

Now if the state would just stop abusing their power with discrimination against theists without just cause it would be a far better world. If you think that will come from any state an atheist can concoct, dont hold your breath.

really? lol

So you advocate nonthinking autonomotons?

So than JC does in fact give humans the task of judging others. nice dose of doublrthink there.

really? Citation?

yes we should be thankful for their generous restraint

Nice example, but it seems to me God instructed man to be in the image of God?

No its not.
It is synon with culture however, if the dogma catches on and is practiced by others.

A creator understands what it creates, is that the best you can come up with?

Just showed you how foolishthat path is.

Democracy? Stomp on one religion in violation of their rights to favor the rights of another in every case?

ok

The christian God is a triune God afaik?

Satanic christians, nice oxymoron! More sinking into the abyss of illogic and unreason.

false, you dont 'need' any 'convenience' constructs.

and especially after the states wiped their asses with those constitutions

you talking about NT christians or OT Jews?
doesnt sound like you are talking about christians to me.

really? so the apple I am eating has a view of god then?

Not a problem, except if they are the only source and the victim is in emminent danger.

good point.

no one cares or should care about the label if they agree with the outcome.

the brain is always under a variety of stresses, the brain always responds to stimula, that will prove nothing more?

and the atheists are different how? LOL

you dont bash atheism, why not?

nonsequitur, uncondition love has nothing to do with special, more severely flawed logic

please present your proofs and peer reviews. citations?

and you forgive the dishonesty of atheists that hide behind democracy and the state.

except the atheists immoral religions of course.

and of course atheists did not? citations?

Wow dont blow a gasket, that kind of unjustified hatred is seriously detrimental to your health you know. Have you considered seeking propfession help?

LOL G1!

true

in some cases, was it slavery or servitude?

ditto

yes in many cases that is true

The realilty of God is not dependent on someones belief.

 

If you insist that "atheism" is a religion, what is your word for a person who doesnt have a religion and doesnt have any belief in any Gods?

 

We have that. Our founders realized how important that was, so they wrote it into our constitution.

What they didn't write into our constitution was this idea that religious belief is a justification for ignoring the rest of our constitution and the law created under that constitution.

Also, they did not agree with the notion that laws can be created purely to enforce a religous belief.

 

yes it is, there are several purely atheist 'religions'. No such thing, unless youare in a coma or dead. doesnt believe in G/god has many circumstantial labels.

false, unless you are willing to argue lip service is have that?

false, they wrote it into the BoR.

....authority for the gov to regulate or even adjudicate our reserved rights! Please post your citation if you think otherwise.

Ignoring which part of the constitution? Which part grants them the authority to regulate or even adjudicate our 'reserved rights', other than to protect every last one by dismissing any case that infringes on someones religion? Citations required.

They enforced 'their' da' gubmints belief that the mormons cant have multiple wives.
They enforced the religious beliefs held by gays and stomped on the christians.

any reserved right that they regulate is not a right, and that is an unlawful conversion by da gubmint, high crimes against the people.

What law in the constitution grants the gubmint the authority to violate/regulate/convert our reserved rights? citation please.

 

So you have no word simply for "doesn't believe in God"? The phrase is a bit long. I prefer to use the word "atheist" to shorthand it. Yes, atheists all have their own worldviews, as do theists. I say "theist" to shorthand "does believe in God", and different theists can have very different worldviews from each other other than that. Just as atheists can have totally different worldviews other than their lack of belief in Gods.

f

 

I'm curious about the history on that. I'm not from the USA so I'm not well educated on this. It was my understanding that Utah wasn't invited to join the union unless they got rid of the multiple wives thing. Is that correct? Or did they seize Utah and force the mormons to give up the multiple wives? I see a key difference between the two.

You consider it religious belief that gays wanted to not be discriminated against? Did you likewise consider it religious belief when black people wanted to be free and wanted the vote? When women got the vote was that religion? I don't think they saw it that way.

 

There was a 6 year gap between Mormons ending plural marriage in 1890 and when Utah became a state in 1896.

It might be noted that the LDS Church included the vast percent, but not absolutely all Mormons. So, to this day there are Mormons who practice polygamy and who live in Utah, but who aren't LDS members. I can't say how they get away with it, but my impression is that it's usually in what appear to me to be remote and fairly desolate areas, often with poverty.

All territories becoming states in that general timeframe were required to make statements against polygamy - not just Utah.

There was a period of federal troop involvement in Utah well before statehood. There were notable instances of massacres and other action going on in Utah. These were not limited to slaughter of the native population. I think there is some disagreement on how much federal troops helped the issue, but they had left by 1861, well before the statehood issue and in order to join in our civil war which started in 1861.

Good points related to various groups achieving voting rights! There were various groups on both sides of each of those and other somewhat similar issues who both claimed they were following the direction of Christianity.

 

I agree. Tell that to the inquisitors and Jihadists. They do not believe what you put.

Sure, and ignored by inquisitions and jihads.

Do you wish to emulate a genocidal god who kills when he could just as easily cure?

Why?

Regards
DL