"Which is it?" Rightwing Doublethink Pt. 1- Illegal Immigrants-

Which is it, Rightwingers?

Are illegal immigrants (I use that term so you won't deflect by debating "undocumented").....



A. "just coming here to America to live off our welfare, free housing, free medicine, free education for their kids....producing nothing and living off Government handouts"?



OR B. "coming here and taking jobs away from Americans"?


It can't be both.

If they are "on welfare"...they're not working and thus have taken NO jobs from Americans.

If they've taken jobs from Americans....they're working.....they're contributing and either they or their employers are PAYING TAXES on their work into the Government.

 

A visual aid-

 

While I agree that the same individual cannot do both, some immigrants may displace native born workers while others go on welfare.

Very clever poster, though. Thanks for that.

 

It actually is both. I know it surprises you, but not everyone does the same action. There are those illegal immigrants who are brought over here to work for these bastardized companies.(Which is why I support punishing companies who do hire illegals, a democrat position if I last recall.)

And then for those who don't have a job, but are veritably in the country, we're "obligated" to provide basic services so that they don't die on the streets. These services has cost us a good deal in unpaid money.

So yes, it's both. And it's not a contradiction, it shows the importance of that "comprehensive reform". I'm a supporter of the Rubio plan myself. Verify that our border's secure, have a "legalization" process that IMO should be targeted(You can't very well legalize all 12 million of them, it's economic suicide. Its just as impossible as deporting all 12 million.) I've proposed 4-6 million in the past as being my target number.

And I think I'm being very fair.

 

While I have not personally made either one of these arguments, wouldn't it be very possible that an Illegal Immigrant could be working under the table and simultaneously accepting government benefits?

 

But it's used as a GENERIC attack by the Right on undocumented immigrants that "millions of them" are BOTH "on welfare" AND "working jobs they stole from Americans."

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So the employees and/or their employers....don't pay taxes???

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Do American citizens take jobs that are "under the table" and then accept Government benefits?

 

Occasionally yes. That isn't the topic however. You presented what you thought was an airtight dichotomy, and I displayed how that isn't necessarily the case. Discussing Americans that work under the table has not one thing to do with your alleged dichotomy.

 

This is a strawman argument since you know full well it can be both. And taking government handouts doesn't always mean you are lazy, just that you know how to play the system, which is way too easy to be abused.

 

Really? I've never seen that.

Perhaps your memory is playing trick on you.

 

Sure it does.

Why do you NOT object to American citizens taking jobs "under the table" AND accepting Government benefits?

"I do"....really? As strongly as you oppose undocumented immigrants supposedly doing it???

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You've NEVER seen a Rightwinger say "Millions of illegal Immigrants come here and take jobs from Americans"....

and then another Rightwinger say "Millions of illegal immigrants come here and live off welfare and Government hand-outs paid for with tax dollars"????

 

I used to work for a guy who refused to hire Caucasians. He said they were lazy, and if they were displeased with you, they sue.

I am not sure how bigoted that is.

 

Yes. So what? Both phenomenon may happen, and in fact does happen. I believe both things can and do happen. Where is the contradiction in that?

I believe millions of high school students do not go to college and millions of them do go to college.

 

It was the rightwing in this country (the owners of the bastardized companies, the Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street, etc.) that supported bringing the immigrants in. The idea was to improve the bottom line and break up the service unions. Now it's the rightwing that wants to deport 'em all. It all sounded good at the time, I guess.

 

Obviously you are quite wrong.

One can have a job and still get massive bennies from government

 

Of course it is bigoted. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

It's a false dichotomy as well, where the OP posits that both are mutually exclusive choices, when in fact, they are not.

Just another thread fail.

 

both? some of them the able bodied could be taking the jobs or at least the opportunity for them while the others could be mooching off the system. Besides you can be an illegal working a non declared job so you would have no declared income.

Either way they harm teh economy

 

so the democrats never took money from these corporations?

 

In typical liberal fashion an idea is put into someone's head, after that all contradicting facts and argumts are denied and this lie of a cartoon is someone's new reality.

 

Not quite.

The fathers come here and take American jobs. Their wives get pregnant and receive medicaid for the duration of the pregnancy. Then their new born children are American citizens eligible for food stamps, medicaid, and other forms of welfare.

No duality necessary.

 

So, obviously you're not Caucasian since you worked for him. Why would you want to work for a bigot? Not sure how bigoted that makes you.

 

I was his token white. In fact, as a moldmaker, towards the end, I worked with all foreigners. WE don't have apprentices anymore. H1Bs ruined that.

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You don't often GET to work for your idols. I did almost work for Leo Fender. They said I would HATE HIM. And tried to scare me off.

 

Specifically, with NAFTA. They thought they could get those "cheap goods" without consequence(it was bipartisan. A mistake made by all of us.) Well, it was with dire consequences. Jobs moving out, the value of the dollar plummeted for the average American and eventually the crisis happened. Induced labor, whether it was slavery or illegal immigrants, both were wrong.

Illegal immigration is the slavery of our times. The BIG difference however, is that whereas Slaves were imported and could become citizens illegals are a problem because they COST. This country shouldn't double down on a mistake by making a new one.

 

Who said anything about me objecting or not objecting to Americans taking jobs under the table ? You presented what you thought was an airtight dichotomy, and I displayed how that isn't necessarily the case. Discussing Americans that work under the table has not one thing to do with your alleged dichotomy. The ONLY thing I have said to you is addressing your incorrectly perceived dichotomy.

I have no idea whatsoever what your "I do...really" comment is about. It seems like that must have been directed elsewhere because it doesn't make a lick of sense in response to anything I have said.

 

I didn't say they didn't. I did say those corporations and the CofC ARE the rightwing.