White supremacists are trying to cause chaos during the current protests

What is the "race based" of your economic disadvantage?

 

That to which Trump was referring, ie, poverty rates that are double that of whites, especially evident in black inner city ghettos.

 

Thanks for the link. However I think your comment: :"Antifa exist mainly to discredit any sort of leftist demonstration by trying to make it as violent as possible" is confusing Antifa's 'goals' with 'discrediting effects'.

Here is article's definition: "Antifa, short for “anti-fascist,” is an amorphous movement whose adherents oppose people or groups they consider authoritarian or racist, according to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which monitors extremists. Antifa aims to “intimidate and dissuade racists,” but its aggressive tactics including physical confrontations can create “a vicious, self-defeating cycle of attacks, counter-attacks and blame,” the ADL said"

ie, the "aggressive tactics" are likely to be self-defeating according to the ADL, but they are not a goal of Antifa.

And the article's examination of the much more dangerous 'boogaloo' and
white supremacists is also very informative.

Meantime, people here are refusing to face the systemic economic disadvantage that is especially evident in black inner-city ghettos. (Trumpy has typically referred to them as****holes)

 

OK so you don't want to be clear, you want to nickel and dime your discussion. If you can't explain what legal or structural issue is based on race, than forget it.

 

It is naive to assume that a violent political group cannot be largely run and in particular funded by those against its ostensible goals.

Systemic economic advantage doesn't have a whole lot to do with the police murdering somebody in any case. I guess it exists and is a bad thing but I find it irrelevant here. In fact, the whole idea of race is irrelevant here. The cops shouldn't murder people like this, even white people.

 

Those who deny systemic and structural racism will be re-educated, as will their families, particularly the children.

 

Simple. Poverty results in more frequent interventions/confrontation with police. Duh.

Hence, double the rates of unemployment and poverty among blacks means race will contribute to higher incarceration rates for blacks.
Hence given the bad behaviour of some police, it's not surprising that a "black lives matter" movement has arisen, simply because of the higher numbers of crime related interventions by police, combined with the sometimes bad police behaviour noted above.

Solution: eradicate poverty. Perfectly do-able (just in case you think poverty is a 'natural' condition).

The current global protests show that our current neoliberal orthodoxy is increasingly on the nose, even if it's not widely understood WHY …... " You are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken, your young men are in prison" .

 

I have explained that in the post above:

"Poverty results in more frequent interventions/confrontations with police"
which combined with bad behaviour by some of the arresting police., means more poor interventions occur... until we have the present global "black lives matter" protests.

 

That's very cultural revolution of you!

 

So in other words, you are denying there is such a thing as structural racism or as you've also described it, entrenched race-based disadvantage.

As you say, "Poverty results in more frequent interventions/confrontation with police. Duh."

However if simply the existence of poverty is your primary metric, then it's not race based, it's economic and classed based, which seems to be a totally opposite argument from the one you started with.

 

Mebbe, I dunno.

I know this sounds naive but why can't the cops just be NICE to people? I mean as a general policy? I mean, beat the guy up AFTER you call him sir and talk in a quiet voice?

Seriously, whatever happened to Officer Friendly?

 

Attention @JakeStarkey ! More WHITE SUPREMACISTS spotted!

3 protesters tracked officers to their homes, threw Molotov cocktails at police cars, authorities say

 

Not one mention of black looters. If it were white males doing it they would have sent in the Marines day 1 and arrested them for all for domestic terrorism and hate crimes.

 

It's good to deal with police violence, but the Bigger Issue isn't being addressed - black crime. Not Nigerian, Indian or Pakistani black - "African-American" black.

 

It is not being addressed?

 

But it's not "simply the existence of poverty", it's the higher incidence of poverty among blacks. How difficult is that to understand?

 

Because humans - all of us - don't react well to:
1. aggression, and
2. not being obeyed when we expect to be obeyed....

(Psychologists tell us our fathers were bastards...)

Given the above, it's not easy for officers....

 

That sounds like a threat, left just vague enough to try to stay on the right side of the line with the code of conduct. Threatening people's families will not go well for your side.

 

Well...so far so good with your 'analysis' of the problem, namely, "black crime".

So let's read on.....hang on, you have nothing more to say about "the Bigger issue" ie black crime?

Why am I not surprised?

To get you started:

Crime - of the type likely to be dealt with in the first instance by police - is related to poverty (less able to pay utility fees, fines etc; environment more conducive to poorer educational outcomes, unemployment leading to demoralisation resulting in destructive, risk-taking behaviours, etc, eg ,

" You are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken, your young men are in prison" . DJ Trump.

Now combine that with the higher incidence of poverty among blacks.

And feel free to proceed with your "Bigger picture" 'analysis'...

 

Soft words and standard normal rules of polite conduct. Calling people sir and granting others the normal respect due to another human being. What is so difficult about that?

 

Well we are now addressing that issue in this thread. See #194 above.

White males are more evenly spread throughout the community; poorer black males are more likely congregating in ghettos.

"You are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken, your young men are in prison" . DJ Trump.

Surveillance of white male extremist groups is more likely conducted on line by security agencies, and therefore doesn't require intervention by the Marines.

I'm here to tell you high black poverty rates are a cause of black crime. Threatening to bring in the military won't solve black poverty or black crime....and Trump is losing support everywhere on the Right for issuing those threats, the latest dissenter being Colin Powell, ​

 

Sure, there's plenty of poor Puerto Ricans too. And Jews started out pretty poor when
they came to America, and then so too the Irish and Chinese. These groups moved up
the ladder but the "African Americans" did not.
There's plenty of other "African Americans" who migrated to the US from Nigera, Ethiopia,
South Africa etc.. These are all moving up the ladder too. But it appears even these new
Africans are racist - they treat "African Americans" with an element of suspicion.

 

Yet there is still plenty of poverty-related crime, eg stealing motor vehicles, home-invasions, theft, non-payment of debt etc, amongst all those groups, including home-grown white Americans (as is the case in ANY nation). All those 'criminals' living in poverty have failed to "move up the ladder".

The problem in regard to the present protests and riots lays in the greater prevalence of poverty in black ghettos; but the solution lies in the eradication of ALL poverty,

In truth we have a systems problem: it's called neoliberalism.

The 'necessity' for poverty is long past, in our highly productive AI, IT, and robot assisted economies.

So...we need to examine why it is that US Africans are stuck in ghettos, unlike your Africans mentioned above.
Something to do with centuries'-long home-grown racism and discrimination in the US, obviously.

 

The problems in America with violent crime, on the one hand, and police abuse and brutality, on the other hand, are both more complicated issues than any that presents them through one simple prism. Whether through the prism of race, or economic class, or any ideology (whether capitalist, socialist, neo-liberal, etc).

As with everything else with society, the totality of circumstances is what would constitute the full narrative. That totality includes, but is not limited to, America's history with racism and some of its byproduct, namely a class of people who are too alienated and detached from the rest of the society economically, socially and otherwise, to abide by its rules. To be sure, the economic system in America is a part of that narrative too, especially since the system is not as equipped to as effectively (nor certainly quickly) redress historical imbalances as it is geared towards serving and enhancing the material interests of those who are its main supporters and constituents.

In this equation and mix, all ideas (and objections) which are intended to elevate our understanding of issues (even those that highlight greater incidence of crime among certain groups), are useful in my view as long as none become too dogmatic about any. On the other hand, any that seeks to simply fuel more hatred and racism (including those that highlight greater incidence of crime among certain groups to promote racial division) are part of the problem, not the solution. I have several other things to say on these issues, but wanted to start off with these general observations for now.

 

There are two groups who will sit on the bottom of US socio economic status forever.
African Americans and Native Americans.
What's the connection?
Both didn't freely migrate to America to "make it."
In China you have dumb, lazy, indifferent, smart and rich Chinese - the smart or
rich ones shift to Asia or America. So Chinese aren't "smart" or "business people"
in reality. Same with Indians who migrate to Australia or Fiji where they "make it"
We in Australia are impressed with how hard Indians work - but I bet there's plenty
of lazy ones in India. It's the human condition.
So there's a filtering going on. The 'yankee' Americans were hard working, pioneering,
business people you would respect. Lots of British back home weren't.
So native Americans are just ordinary people and African slaves were chosen for
physical labor. Many other groups were the cream of their societies.