Why do abortion rights people whine about a group of white men overturning Roe v. Wade?

So, maybe they should be buried or cremated without further thought? Better yet, Soylent Green?

 

Probably not, but it wouldn't be murder. The reason not is they're being kept that way for organ harvest or so that their family can say goodbye and then bury them with respect. There are cultural norms to consider around this and I'm okay with respecting cultural norms when it doesn't harm persons. Logically, a corpse is more an object than a person, but it still represents somebody who was alive and loved and the family has rights over what happens to the body. In medical ethics they're also supposed to consider what the person would have wanted to happen to their body.

All of that said, I'm not sure how it informs abortion policy.

 

"PROBABLY" not? Seriously?

 

So then you would support a ban on abortion after 20 weeks.

 

I see the existence of HUMAN life as sacred at all costs.

The alternative is tragedy? What are you referring to exactly?

By this definition, killing BORN children is justified, if the alternative is that they grow up in an environment NOT "rich in nurturing", and they will be "resented" and "seen as a burden", WITHOUT "sufficient support and quality in the environment around them to provide them with the tools to navigate life successfully."

Then why are there pro-life women who have had an abortion in the past before they were pro-life?

39 women died from illegal abortion before Roe v Wade.

You think that EVERYONE does it with great sadness? Seriously?

What is an "option imitation?"

 

Yes

 

Okay. And isn't 20 weeks before the point of viability?

 

By a few weeks. I say 20 weeks because it would be a safe bet for avoiding killing actual persons with minds. Viability is going to be based on the medical technology of the day and it has gone down since RvW. I don't think it's relevant so to me RvW was more of a nearly correct conclusion (early/usual abortion unrestricted) but with incorrect justification. Someday we'll make artificial wombs and be able to grow an embryo into a person without a mother's body, but it would not actually change the moral status of the embryo. The embryo would remain mindless and not a person with rights.

 

An interesting position - and I wonder if you would be considered pro-choice by most liberals.

 

First.... your obvious intent is to argue. You, like most- measure everything from you own perspective, but unlike many- you don't think anyone else's perspective matters if it doesn't agree with yours, even if you have absolutely nothing to do with it. That tells me you really don't give a damn about other people or their right to live as they believe. I'm going to answer your points. It will be the last time, and I do it only because others will read and understand what you do not.

The tragedy of a pregnancy that is untimely and unwanted- Is that either way, aborted or not, it will have lifetime consequences that generally will not be good for mother or child. A child born into an environment not properly supported financially or psychologically, with a single parent in depression or hostility over the position she is in- has little chance at a meaningful life, let alone a happy one. If the mother regrets not aborting the pregnancy, it will be worse. If she does abort- even if she remains convinced it was the right decision at the time, it will still be a painful part of her memory for the rest of her life.
This is tragedy either way- for mother for child born or unborn. An unwanted pregnancy creates a situation of tragedy no matter what happens. Their are no choices that do not have long-term negative consequences- but there are plenty of people who will walk away after dictating a choice that will affect someone else's lifetime, and never look back. YOU are on of those people. That too- is tragic.

Your "EVRYONE" comment is an attempt to use exceptions to override norms. I have no doubt that there are those who see pregnancy as an inconvenience; perhaps a street prostitute might- or might not.
But YOU don't know- and unless you are a person in that position, you are only speculating about their situation. If you are a man, that is impossible to do with any real degree of empathy.

Women can (As we all do but you especially should understand) look back on past decisions and wish they had made a different one. However, the view from a distance or in hindsight is not the same as the view in the midst of the crisis. That is when this decision must be made- and there is always a herd of jackasses braying in such a person's face to make it more difficult. I've personally been involved counseling a catholic card-carrying anti-abortionist who found herself in a crisis pregnancy, and did get an abortion. Regrets work both ways. The other tragedy is that the people who interfere are not obligated to be fully involved in the consequences of those whose personal decisions they interfere with. If you think you are responsible for "saving" a life- I want to see the support check backing up your decision every month. Put some skin in the game.

Your "39 women" is more ludicrous fantasy. The actual records list thousand or more deaths per year as caused by abortion attempts, but if it is illegal- it's not going to be reported that way in a great many cases.. Truth is we don't know how many died other than it is thousands annually at the time before RvW. The biased people in any special issue will find or fabricate numbers to attempt to make their case rational. That is the willingness to distort rather than examine truth. Not an admirable choice.

Unwanted pregnancies are not intentional pregnancies. You are unable to put yourself in that position to actually understand the impact on that person. Along with that- the consequences aren't falling on you, so it's just flat out not your decision. Be a decent human being, and stay out of other people's lives.

Now I'm done with your foolishness.

 

Well?

 

Is 'mindlessness' a scientific term? Do you mean 'sentience?'

 

Moderate, but closer to pro-choice. Though I feel like both labels miss the crux of the issue.

Yeah that's probably a better term

 

Do comatose people have sentience?

 

Says the person who has shut down the debate in order to no longer hear my perspective!

 

Your perspective seems to be that of someone who has fallen into the hole at the outhouse. We already know what you see.
Argument isn't "debate".

 

Have we not been debating?

 

A debate needs to be based on understanding. Not necessarily agreement, but understanding the opposing basis. An argument is based on whatever you want to invent to try to gain the upper hand.
We can debate the accuracy of an issue, but not distort or deny facts. 2+2 is 4, like it or not. Insisting it is 5 in order to avoid acknowledging 4? Not debate.
Answer- NO.

 

Are you referring to my claim that 39 women died from illegal abortion the year before Roe v Wade?

 

Yes, they are distinct from the embryo in that they have achieved it, and so within their brain is that capacity and existence of a person, sort of like a sleeping person, but more extreme. It's true you run into ethical dilemmas if it's expected they would never recover at all though.

 

But that's the point - in a coma, they do NOT have this capacity.

 

Are you referring to my claim that 39 women died from illegal abortion the year before Roe v Wade?

 

I'm referring to your denial of any facts that don't support your argument.

There is huge bias and propaganda here. You can find support of most anything you want to claim in someone else's claim.

An article states that the world-wide death toll from unsafe abortions is about 47,000. annually.

Bottom line is the same. NOT YOUR BODY, NOT YOUR BUSINESS, NOT YOUR DECISION.
My position is not going to change as a result of what you believe, and i doubt you will change.
So- you are wasting your efforts trying to get me to support it.

 

If someone murders, robs or rapes someone: NOT YOUR BUSINESS, NOT YOUR DECISION!

 

Nothing seems to be right with you. The world just won't agree with you, and we all know you are the only one who is right. Happy now?