Why you can't have an honest or civil conversation with most racists

Telling me I have to serve someone makes me a slave and takes my rights away. I should have the right not to serve someone if I own my own business.

 

That's a bad example because it is also against the law to promote discrimination against a protected group. I'm a fan of MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) and there is a debate about whether or not the UFC should hire White Supremacists who have tattoos or want to promote their message of hate on a televised event. The logic of the racists who support this view is that if a Christian can have religious tattoos and thank God or Jesus during a televised event they should be able to promote their ideas. The UFC President finds this idea preposterous and has gone on record to say that the UFC will never hire an open White Supremacist and allow them to promote their hate messages. Businesses have a right not to tolerate racism or discrimination of any kind and they can actually be sued for doing so. You may consider this a double standard but I don't. I think that racism should be as marginalized as possible. So no Swastika cakes being made by Jewish bakers and no White Pride tattoos for professional fighters or anything like that.

I disagree. If you make a commitment to serve the public you must serve everyone. The only exception is if they are doing something disruptive to your business where you are legally justified in having them removed from your establishment and not serving them.

 

You have not offered an adequate response to why white 'supremacists' should not be able to promote their views. "Because racism" is not an argument. You should see this for someone with an impressively high IQ.

Opening a business is not a commitment to serve the public; it's a way for the business owner to make money. Government serves the public; not private business.

 

White Supremacists are legally allowed to promote their views under freedom of speech. They are not allowed to create businesses that discriminate based on race. When you open a business designed to make money by serving the public you are obligated by law to serve the public fairly. This makes perfect sense. In the past racists in America got away with the kind of discrimination you support. Now the law is more progressive and supports Egalitarian ideas which I believe is great.

 

OK Rayznack, say you opened a resturant that only served the people you wanted to serve. What if the person who was supposed to supply meat to your establishment refused to sell you meat because he only wanted to sell to certain people. And the only other meat supplier was hundreds of miles away. Would this be fair?

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I agree 100%

 

Fairness and legality are not the same. No one should be forced to sell their product. Think how ridiculous that statement is.

EJ doesn't use logic and reason in his arguments but circular reasoning and undeveloped statements.

 

Why can't a business serve some but not all of the public?

You do not offer coherent and compelling explanations for your views and conclusions.

 

It's only right to serve everyone fairly. Do I need to go in to a deep philosophical discussion about morality with you? We have a difference in opinion on this issue. You think that it is ok to be a racist bigot and discriminate against people based on who you want to serve and I don't. I believe in treating people fairly.

 

That's a right one should have. You haven't made an argument beyond "it's racism".

 

There doesn't need to be an argument beyond it's racism and no you don't need a right to discriminate against people. You see we just differ in opinion. Your position is no more logical than mine. I think it is wrong to discriminate and you think it is right.

 

No crime has ever been committed by blacks. Blacks are not a collective, they do not act as a single entity. That entity does not commit crimes.

Individuals commit crimes. Those individuals may be black (or otherwise). You want to blame someone for a crime, blame the person who committed it. Not everyone who shares his skin color.



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I am referring to population statistics. I have never said all blacks commit disproportionate amounts of crime but rather blacks as a ethnicity do. The facts are irrefutable.

This seems to be the new popular diversion tactic, state that data is irrelevant because there are exceptions within the population

 

Kind of hard to do business without serving someone.



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Blacks as an ethnicity do not commit crimes. Your statement is refutable. If you believe otherwise, feel free to bring a lawsuit against blacks as an ethnicity and attempt to demonstrate that ethnicity is responsible for that crime.

Your data is irrelevant. It is like observing people with an "e" in their name commit more crime that people with an "o" in their name.




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Before arguing with a racist, it is usually a good idea to ask yourself why you are bothering.

Do you think that the racist is open to thinking the issue through rationally? Are you potentially winning over undecideds? Do you think you are likely to learn something yourself?

If you can't think of a good reason to bother arguing with the racist, consider just not arguing with the racist.

 

*shrug* Sometimes you just kick the can, to see it fly.



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I never said that an entire ethnicity commits the crime, rather the individuals belonging to a particular ethnicity commit a disproportionate amount of the crime compared to the individuals within other ethnicities.

You are looking foolish

I will not respond to another strawman from you on this topic, ignore the data all you want. I don't really care, It's existence remains

 

Like I have said, I am genially curious as to how we can fix the alarming statistics that exist within the black community at large. Simply calling anyone that points out trends as racist does nothing but continue the status quo while creating polarized opinions that do nothing to solve issues.

I am not attempting to belittle or disparage any group (I belong to a group that also has some alarming rates) but until discourse can be opened these problems will remain. Everyone should be given the same opportunity regardless of their race.

There are some people that simply refuse facts on both sides of the spectrum but to simply label anyone as racist because they point out something you don't like...

If ignoring data is racist, so be it.

 

You did.

Those individuals do not belong to that ethnicity. Ethnicities don't own people and they don't commit crimes.

You are stretching for a way to shift blame for the crimes of individuals onto an "ethnicity" or other way of describing a group that includes people who did not commit the crime. Blaming people for a crime not because of their demonstrable guilt, but because of their race... that's where you are making a mistake.




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That's up to the business owner to make that decision.

 

Yes it is. And when he applies for a license to put out his shingle, to serve the public, he's made that decision.



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I never said all blacks do anything.
Calling you a liar on that one.

Wth are you even talking about, "ethnicities don't own people"?

I can usually keep up with most arguments, or at least somewhat understand, but yours is so ridiculous I don't think I will bother.

 

So you think it's okay to discriminate against one group over another. How novel for the man who thinks progress is the equivalent of selective discrimination by law.

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So then a baker would be required to bake a cake with a swastika on it at the behest of the customer.

 

Not tolerating bigotry isn't discrimination. You seem to want it to be ok to be racist, not because it makes sense but because you want racism to be socially acceptable. Society is moving past that hateful ideology which is very progressive.

 

You think ethnicities do own people? That people belong to that ethnicity?

My argument is this: blacks and whites don't do anything. People who are white or black may do things. If you have a problem with something people do, have a problem with the people who do it. Not with their skin color.

Saying something silly like "white people are stupid" is gonna get a response. (I never said all white people)




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