YOUNG, DUMB AND ARMED How Melbourne became a gun city

I don't care about the "its not that high" whine. You do accept that a significant amount of guns in Mexico are the result of legal American gun markets?

 

Nope, because it's NOT a "significant amount." Why the F would a Mexican go for an American gun that has limitations on it and costs five times as much when they can get a gun off of a corrupt Mexican cop for pennies on the dollar that actually has such desirable qualities as select fire and a shorter barrel?

Sure, some self-styled "banditos" like to pack fancy American handguns, like .38 Super 1911's, silverplated with turquoise and gold-inlaid pewter grips, as a status symbol; but that's about it.

 

Upto 3.7% of US domestic arms sales is not significant? Wow, you must be dead friendly to gun control!

 

To say I question the validity of that number would be putting it mildly. Sorry, it simply doesn't pass the common sense smell test when one knows the facts of how such things work.

 

Scholarly research versus your opinion? Hmmm, difficult one!

 

Corrupted and politically-driven nonsense; not "scholarly".

 

So academic research is part of some conspiracy?

 

Straw man

There is growing evidence that there is a thriving industry in the USA selling guns illegally to other countries and not just Mexico

https://www.rand.org/news/press/2017/07/19.html

 

A study that is estimating the traffic of guns is most definitely not proof. Find proof that I do not have to pay to read also.

 

Why would that be a surprise? The US government furnishes a lot of military hardware to any country it perceives is assisting in the war on drugs. As I have posted, one source we had for weapons below the borders was the military and the police. But, the ports are are sieves for weapons smuggled from Chinese, NK and other countries Mexico trades with and AKs are plentiful among those in the drug trade. America, Russia, and China hand out weapons like candy to any ally... no secret there. But, for the untrained in difficult environments, AKs rule.

 

You didn’t read the links did you

These guns are not going to third world countries they are being sold here and in Europe and to terrorists .......

 

Mexico is smuggling Metric Tons of Illegal Drugs into the U.S.A. everyday...... Especially Cocaine.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-border-tunnels-20170113-story.html


Border tunnels left unfilled on Mexican side pose security risk, officials say

By RICHARD MAROSI
JAN 15, 2017
| SAN DIEGO



A cross-border drug smugglers' tunnel that had been shut down but left unfilled on the Mexican side was found to be back in operation in December, officials said. (Mexico attorney general's office / Associated Press)


Mexican drug cartels have burrowed dozens of tunnels in the last decade, outfitted them with rail and cart systems to whisk drugs under the U.S. border and, after being discovered by authorities, abandoned them.

But some of the illicit passageways live on.

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At least six previously discovered border tunnels have been reactivated by Mexican trafficking groups in recent years, exposing a recurring large-scale smuggling threat, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.

The breaches of border defenses, most recently in December, occur because Mexican authorities, unlike those on the American side, do not fill the tunnels with concrete once they have been discovered. Mexican authorities say they lack the funds.


Instead, only the tunnel openings are sealed. That allows traffickers to simply dig a new entry point to access the largely intact subterranean passageways leading to the U.S. border.

The security lapse is a boon for traffickers, experts say, saving them time and money and reducing their risk of being caught as they haul away dirt.



“The biggest threat is that it’s a huge open invitation for drug traffickers, and it’s definitely going to be taken advantage of,” said Michael Unzueta, a former special agent in charge of Immigration and Customs Enforcement in San Diego.

The biggest threat is that it’s a huge open invitation for drug traffickers, and it’s definitely going to be taken advantage of.

MICHAEL UNZUETA, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE OF ICE IN SAN DIEGO
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On the U.S. side, drug tunnels have been filled since 2007, after The Times reported that they were being left unfilled because of budget constraints at U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Prompted by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who called the tunnels a “national security risk,” the agency has filled every large tunnel up to the border ever since, according to Department of Homeland Securityofficials.

U.S. authorities at the time anticipated that traffickers would reactivate the tunnels, and some recommended that the U.S. consider paying Mexico's costs of filling the tunnels on its side. But funding sources were never found.

Since 2007, it has cost Customs and Border Protection $8.7 million to fill drug tunnels, according to a 2016 report by the Department of Homeland Security.

Now an estimated 20 large tunnels, constructed before and after 2007, remain largely intact on the Mexican side, according to U.S. and Mexican officials.

The tunnel issue could take on more urgency under the incoming administration of President-elect Donald Trump, who has made border security a central feature of his campaign. Border patrol agents who are part of Trump’s transition team said they plan to bring it up with the new administration.

"We don't want to leave infrastructure in place in the form of half-completed tunnels for [cartels] to use," said Shawn Moran, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council, the union of agents whose leaders have advised Trump on border security issues. "The cartels are by no means stupid. They're taking the idea to work smarter, not harder, when it comes to these tunnels."

When border fencing went up, traffickers moved underground. Since 2006 there have been 148 tunnels built, according to the DHS, most of them in Arizona and California.

The biggest underground threats now come from what border officials refer to as "super tunnels," which cost millions of dollars to dig and feature sophisticated touches like lighting and ventilation systems that extend for hundreds of yards down wood-beamed passageways.


Most have been constructed in San Diego's Otay Mesa region, 20 miles south of downtown.

The truck-clogged landscape of nondescript warehouses has long served as ideal cover for underground incursions emanating from a light industrial area directly across the border in Tijuana.

It was here in November 2010 that U.S. and Mexican authorities made one of the biggest drug busts ever, seizing 30 tons of marijuana from warehouses linked by a 600-yard passageway.

At a news conference in front the warehouse in San Diego, authorities dubbed it the "election day tunnel," allowed reporters into the depths and declared a victory against traffickers.

"Frustrated by our defenses, they're literally going underground, but we're thwarting them there as well," said John Morton, then director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Afterward, mixing trucks on the San Diego side poured enough concrete to fill the tunnel all the way to the border two blocks away. On the Mexican side, workers poured concrete into the tunnel opening and declared it closed.

Four years later, in April 2014, U.S. and Mexican authorities were back in the same area. Traffickers had dug 700 yards from a window repair shop in Tijuana to another warehouse in San Diego.

When U.S. agents toured the tunnel they noticed that one segment was lined with older-looking electrical wiring and wooden support beams. It also had two sets of ventilation and cart tracks.

The election day tunnel, they determined, had been reactivated — about 1,025 feet of it.

According to coordinates provided by Homeland Security Investigations, a branch of ICE, traffickers appeared to have started digging the tunnel at the window repair shop, then burrowed across Jose Maria Velasco and Jose Lopez Portillo streets, where they tapped into the existing passageway.

From there, they had a free run to the border, and were able to reuse the electrical wiring and support beams.

"It saves them time and money because they don't have to dig as far. It's already there," said Joe Dimeglio, a supervisory special agent with ICE Homeland Security Investigations. In recent years, traffickers have reactivated or tried to reactivate at least four other tunnels in the Otay Mesa area, most recently last month near Tijuana's international airport.

Two more tunnels have seen resumed activity under the Mexicali-Calexico border, 100 miles east of San Diego, according to Homeland Security Investigations.

The election day tunnel remains largely intact in Mexico, concealed inside a high-walled compound where a security guard spends his time watching television on a torn-up sofa. The guard, Victor Mendiola, 55, is there because the property remains under the control of Mexican federal authorities.

Mendiola said his responsibility includes preventing people from accessing the concrete-sealed opening, which now has added layers of garbage and dirt.

But his presence, he admits, isn't much of a deterrent. Clustered around the building on all sides are car repair shops, warehouses and homes, any one of which can serve as a staging ground for diggers wanting to tap into the tunnel beneath his feet.

"I'm here every day, but they could do it again," Mendiola said. "It's possible."

richard.marosi@latimes.com


Richard Marosi

Copyright © 2018, Los Angeles Times

 

What is worse Cocaine or home made Ice????

 

Aside from most of the meth these days is supplied by the same drug cartels, what is your point?

 

I saw many Cocaine related deaths in N.Y.C. Emergency departments,, had not seen any so called home made "Ice"....

 

Pray tell precisely where is the so-called "evidence" that is being referred to by yourself? Anything that must be hidden away behind a paywall is not evidence at all.

Very few firearms found in the nation of Mexico were acquired from federally licensed firearm dealers in the united states. The so-called "ninety percent" figure refers only to the handful of firearms submitted to the ATF for testing, by the nation of Mexico, that they knew or had reason to believe came from the united states.

 

It has been noted by yourself and others that the united states incarcerates more of the population than most other nations. When such is done, it must choose between whether it wants to prosecute matters such as a drug offense, a felon in possession of a firearm offense, or a murder offense. Often it is the drug offense that receives the most focus, meaning felons are left free to acquire firearms as they face almost no chance of ever being prosecuted for such.

 

"Here's some evidence" cries Dave. "That's not evidence as it doesn't support me" crows Bob.

 

And this sums up neatly the hostility to evidence! Scholarly research is dismissed, simply because it's in quality journal and not copy and pasted into a pro-gun group think site.

 

If it cannot be referenced without first being purchased, then it has no merit in being cited. Evidence holds no value when it is hidden away from the public.

It is not hostility towards science, but rather hostility towards profiteering. Why should the public have to pay for something that cannot be verified until after it is already bought and paid for?

 

You show no intellectual knowledge. If it's in peer reviewed journal then it has gone through quality control and therefore should be included in any worthwhile literature review.

You haven't read much of the scholarly research on guns have you?

 

The same was said of the work done by Athur Kellerman, and it was proven that the methodology utilized by himself was intentionally flawed.

Peer review means nothing except like-minded individuals agree with what is being presented.

Quite literally everything has been read extensively. And in each case, the same logical shortcomings and fallacies are found time and time again. They are all drafted on the premise that legal firearms ownership is a problem that must be dealt with through legal restrictions being enacted into law. They use a flawed and questionable methodology in attempting to arrive at the presented conclusions, with questionable evidence being cited, and often they are left inconclusive for the purpose of warranting funding for further study, thus perpetuating constant employment on the part of the so-called "researchers" just so they do not have to seek a different form of employment.

All so-called "scholarly research" is nothing more than an opinion piece, being elevated by its supporters on the basis of the one carrying it out having some sort of degree from a school that supposedly makes them experts. That is why the public is never given access to the actual data, because it must first be analyzed and interpreted by these so-called "researchers" so it can be made to be understood by the public.

Do not forget, this argument pertaining to research has been had between yourself and myself before.

 

Meer hostility to evidence! Can a peer reviewed paper be criticised? Of course. Lotts analysis, for example, has since been rejected for empirical bias created by flawed econometric approach. But guess where that information comes from? Further peer reviewed article. Makes a mockery of your stance doesn't it?

Now it is clear that reliance on any one source is inappropriate. Literature review methods are key. Of course this just makes your position, where you ignore the importance of reading the empirical research, even more ridiculous.

We don't argue over research. You tell me that you don't understand Stats 101 and the nature of hypothesis testing. I laugh.

To give blanket condemnation of scholarly research merely illustrates anti intellectualism. In contrast, I read both sides. I don't ignore research just because it derives pro gun conclusions. The very idea would be cretinous.

 

You read both sides? You're almost ready for the standup routine because I can't stop laughing at that one.

 

Simply claiming that something amounts to evidence because it is agreed with, does not actually make it evidence. How many times must such be pointed out?

Pray tell exactly what is this "flawed econometric approach" that is being referred to by yourself?