Islam Thread

Clearly you do. As I say, I'm taking this to the Christian thread, since its irrelevant here.

 

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=1zs6z6E_Oik"]Dr.Maurice Bucaille ( why i'm muslim) - YouTube[/ame]

 

I do wonder why believers, be them any kind of monotheists, are in need for science to be on their side, and thus often make assertions like the above.

A) A short google search on Bucaille revealed he himself nowhere ever declared to be a Muslim.

B) Established science, scientists and universities do not hold the conviction that Islamic doctrine is of any value in any field of exact, fundamental and natural science.

We in the west are the most advanced because of the essential cultural separation between what is superstition and what is reality. We went to the moon, created airplanes, computers, cars and dominated the globe. If the Quran is the essential source for science, then why is it that the more and more secular west dominates?

 

i agree to a certain extend.

qur'an does not need proofs.
the impact on our life and us reconnecting with our creator
should be enough proof.

mayans had accurate calendars,
does this make them good believers, or
does this help them accomplish their purpose?

people tend to go after proving what they experience
through different stories, which in fact don't mean much
to them, but they state those stories rather as a declaration
of 'checksum' or/and an evidence of concordance:

"here you have been saying this and this, but here is a proof".

by showing off information like this about the qur'an,
perhaps we are only helping gnostics to put islam
under the same category with other religions.
this of course may produce blindness.

Allah-u a'lem.

on the other hand, we simply share stuff here in this thread.
i don't think ojleb put that video trying to prove a point or
show how accurate the qur'an is.

lastly;
qur'an does not need miracles,
it is a miracle itself...

grasped only by good intentions, sincerity
and an open, rebellious* mind...

with the permission of Allah.


* rebellious to society's preconceived mantras.

 

It could serve you as a person, but to me its rather pointless and a subjective approach.

A doctrine can have a great impact on your life without being true, it works if you believe in it.

If Allah would be a reality and the Quran a certainty, then reality would be crystal clear, that would correspondent with a real creation and creator, but what the Quran in reality is, is a multi interpretable (Arab centric) book.

That again is subjective. But why do you believe so?

 

*correspond

 

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

ok it looks bad but you read horrible crap in the bible 2 that most just ignore

 

Sahih International
Those are upon

guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful.

2:6
to top




Sahih International
Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

2:7
to top




Sahih International
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

this doesn’t seem just or merciful​

 

Sahih International
And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

2:9
to top




Sahih International
They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

2:10
to top




Sahih International
In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.


Seems a bit lacking in the mercy how much should Allah hurt you just because you go through motions of Islam without believing in it?

 

O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -


2:22
to top




Sahih International
[He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him].

2:23
to top




Sahih International
And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.

2:24
to top




Sahih International
But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.



so when is there going to be a a part that shows there is an Allah and why is it wrong to not believe this stuff?

and what happened to the justice and mercy this Allah was supposed to have so much of?

 

Hi OJLeb, interesting thread. Are you from Lebanon and currently living in Canada? (Going off the info and flags you have listed)

 

Sahih International
How can you disbelieve in Allah when you were lifeless and He brought you to life; then He will cause you to die, then He will bring you [back] to life, and then to Him you will be returned.

What’s up with this bit how does anyone know this Allah bot people to life causes death and will resurrect people?

iv never seen anything that supports this but it looks like im in trouble with this Allah for not believing it?

 

2:41
to top




Sahih International
And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me.

what confirmation was given?

 

2:51
to top




Sahih International
And [recall] when We made an appointment with Moses for forty nights. Then you took [for worship] the calf after him, while you were wrongdoers.

2:52
to top




Sahih International
Then We forgave you after that so perhaps you would be grateful.



26then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, "Who is on the LORD'S side? Let him come unto me." And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.


27And he said unto them, "Thus saith the LORD God of Israel: `Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.'"


28And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses, and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.


so is the old testament lying their? Was Mosses lying or did god mean he forgave every one he did not have killed?

and what proves any of the above actually happened?

 

2:54
to top




Sahih International
And [recall] when Moses said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged yourselves by your taking of the calf [for worship]. So repent to your Creator and kill yourselves. That is best for [all of] you in the sight of your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance; indeed, He is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful

o so forgives comes if you kill yourself for making the merciful Allah mad at you

that’s fair right you did something the all-powerful god didn’t care for but for the low low price of death he won’t hurt you


where’s that justice and mercy again? Are those words supposed to be defined by Allah alone or what?

 

Sahih International
And [recall] when you said, "O Moses, we can never endure one [kind of] food. So call upon your Lord to bring forth for us from the earth its green herbs and its cucumbers and its garlic and its lentils and its onions." [Moses] said, "Would you exchange what is better for what is less? Go into [any] settlement and indeed, you will have what you have asked." And they were covered with humiliation and poverty and returned with anger from Allah [upon them]. That was because they [repeatedly] disbelieved in the signs of Allah and killed the prophets without right. That was because they disobeyed and were [habitually] transgressing.

so god makes people like variety in there food and then gets angry when people complain about a one item diet?

doesn’t seem just merciful or sensible

 

Sahih International
And We have certainly revealed to you verses [which are] clear proofs, and no one would deny them except the defiantly disobedient.

um where?
So far all iv come across are claims

 

Sahih International
O you who have believed, say not [to Allah 's Messenger], "Ra'ina" but say, "Unthurna" and listen. And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment.

seems to be a recurring theme

 

Sahih International
And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

um ok

Produce your proof, if you should be truthful.

 

2:113
to top




Sahih International
The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.

What does the Koran stand on? Or the old testament or the new for that matter? All iv seen so far are claims and threats and promises

 

2:147
to top




Sahih International
The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

But doubt when you don’t know is honest claiming to have the truth on faith is dishonest

 

2:161
to top




Sahih International
Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,

this seems to be a cruel god


2:162
to top




Sahih International
Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.

very cruel

 

Islam is not a religion.

 

2:163
to top




Sahih International
And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
Saying this god is merciful makes it no truer than saying it exists makes it exist

all this talk of cursing and endless punishment for not believing in it however makes this version of god not that merciful

im sure this god has a nicer side but it can be abusive

 

re·li·gion
   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA

noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

um yes it is