Athiests do not accept miracles

Sadly, my google-fu is weak today. All I could find is articles critical of the resilience testing and a lot of discussion of that atheist guy who wants to become a military chaplain. Shame, I honestly would have liked to see something concrete about secular humanism being helpful in those situations, since it's something I might look into if so. Thanks nonetheless.

 

Belief is indeed powerful. So powerful in fact that it has the ability to change lives, our surroundings and indeed the future. To discount belief is to deny part of our human existence and live in ignorance.

 

All you have done is make accusations .. as usual.. with nothing to back it up.

 

Really?

My thesis here is that you are focused on me as a poster and are offering absolutely nothing of value to the topic at hand. You continue to focus on me - that is clearly quite apparent. I believe I have politely pointed you to the TOS and asked you to stop. Still you continue.

Supporting points are that you continuously and in multiple threads are bringing up long buried points that have no bearing on the subject at hand in a clear desire to force a fight - one you will only lose again and lose your temper, only making the cycle for vegence that much worse as you grind your axe to a stub.

And finally, I have repeatedly shown you the errors, as you have asked, and why we disagree. I have even shown you the misquotes, and all you can do is twist them into strawmen while claiming that is what I am doing to you.

So let me be very clear, I have no dsire to engage in your vengence. You lost. The more dishonest and persistant you get, the less my desire is to engage you in the slightest.

Please participate in the debate, and if you think my conduct is unacceptable, you can use that little report function to sic the mods on me. You will not be the first to do so and find that the mods are less than inclined to help you grind your axe or exact vengence for the sake of wounded ego.

Any further comments directed at me, rather than the subject at hand will simply be referred to the mods for adjudication. There is simply no point in attempting to logically reason with a man who is clearly controlled by his ego and beyond reason.

 

Well, then you will have to take my word for it. I am a military officer, and I am one of the guys that not only instructs it, but ensures that it is instructed properly.

Regarless of our personal religious views, we serve the US Constitution. That means all faith choices are equal in treatment, and the profession is lead by people who take that oath ... no pun intended ... deadly serious.

While on the job, your religion is second to the mission, and the mission in this case is not just making sure we take boys into harms way and bring them home alive, but return them to their families and loved ones with as little damage as possible. There is no way in hell I would EVER force my spiritual views on someone and consider it helpful. Rather, if someone is struggling in those situations that we know they will be thrust into - the trick is to use their own spirituality to help them (not mine or my bosses). That means when a Soldier is atheist, one of teh first places they are referred to is secular humanism. It is, in a martial sense, merely a tool to allow a Soldier to bring spiritual aid and comfort to bear in a trying situation.

On that, you have my word.

 

Because faith based hope is the best form of placebo where mental tranquillity is based solely on how deeply you believe. I've personally seen what a Chaplain can do and I haven't heard of any pt, believer or not, turn down a visit from him. I often walk with him as a learning experience even though I'm not a believer.

Bee

 

You'll find it if you search my posts I explained it multiple times. Or if you really care you can pm me and I'll tell you.

 

Is it? Or is that just an excuse to rationalize it away? Again, we are quick with the excuses, but the science? Do you understand what you are saying, in effect, "I am stronger and smarter than you because I have no imaginary placebo," and yet, when the crap hits the proverbial fan - the data bears out the opposite.

If it were JUST a placebo, then the results would not consistantly prove better - the data would reveal a placebo. Instead, it reveals that a lack of faith is .... a handicap.

 

I agree 'placebo' is the wrong word. Mental wellbeing is a much more complex problem than simple physical ailments that can be aided by placebo. Of course, these facts offers support to no particular position, since contradictory belief systems have the same effect.

 

You seem to feel persecuted.

It is Ironic that you spend half your post on a personal attack and then the other half claiming that I have attacked your person.

Just because I pointed out 8 logical fallacies in one of your posts, many of which were ad hom personal attacks, does not mean I am persecuting you personally.

I gave evidence for each fallacy. Rather than address this evidence you engage in more personal attacks and then, in the same post, accuse me of personal attacks without providing valid evidence.

Standing up on a soap box and stating unsupported opinion over and over is not valid evidence.

 

Must be time for forum 'cage match #2!'

"The Gifted One vs. the Neutralizer"

Round 2

Right here, happening NOW, on PF!!

Across multiple threads!!

Taking it from the Forum into the streets!!

BE THERE!​

 

LOL .. Are you offering to be a Judge ?

 

As the 'fair & just' person that I am, I would have to 'favor' my Bro, the Neutralizer, just because....we 'persecuted' brethren have to stick together..

As the irrelevance of yall's discussions and the 'life or death' value placed on the many words (most of it repetitive), does amuse me...

 

Another persecuted soul ?! Misery does love company I suppose.

 

Of course that is why I put persecuted in quotes....I mighta flame-baited you??? Sorry (but not too much)...where's your 'boyfriend' (the poster you stalk) and co-debater this morn? He might get jealous of our conversation..

 

ROFL .. I got a chuckle out of both posts and this one too.

You have a good sense of humor.

 

A sense of humor 'divides the wheat from the chaff' on this forum; as in those inputing into the converstation vs. just those who are angry & lashing out!

 

What part if the poster is not supposed to be part of the post are you haveing trouble comprehending. You are forcing a fight, nothing more. One you will lose again.

Reported.

 

It offers support to the position that faith is better than not having any.

What do you think would happen if they attempted to prove one faith had better effects than another?

 

I do comprehend which is why I pointed out the numerous examples of Ad Hom in your posts.

 

Well yes, sorry, by 'position' I meant religious persuasion, I guess I should have been more specific. Obviously if one IS better than the other then revealing that fact would cause uproar. But if one WAS genuinely better than the other, I'm quite certain plenty of people would seize on that fact and make a big deal out of it. The fact that it hasn't happened is telling IMHO.

 

You have asked and been given examples of this, you pull an ostrich. You are beyond reason.

You have also been pointed to the TOS of the correct procedures. If you think what I am doing is wrong is wrong, then report it and let the mods handle it.

Your desire for revenge, your inability to move on, your twisted and dishonest accusations, your sanctimony, and ego driven stubborness are noted and not relevant. The only thing that will happen if I rebut you in your current insensible state is that you will, again, blow a gasket and your little cycle of internet vengence will only deepen.

Do you understand the TOS? I am not the subject of your posts. I am not gay, so you will just have to carry on your homoerotic persecution with someone else. Its no one's fault but yours that other people are smarter and better versed on things then you are, and its no one's fault but yours that ego is so thick and oversized that you would follow someone around with a dishonest swill fest because you are too stubborn to acknowledge when you are wrong.

Like first century Biblical sources, promiscuity, Constantine authoring the Bible, Clement being unaware of the resurrection - even though he speaks of it directly in his few surviving letters, the Trinity not being based on the Bible ... etc.

You've been wrong in every case, and in every case, after the debate in which your ignorance results in slaughter, you pick some minor bit of minutia, twist and outright lie, and follow me around like an angry puppy dog trying to bite my ankle. Well, does it help when I rub your nose in your failure? That works on puppy dogs?

So here it is an plain English for you child. You are responsible for you. There is a little thing called a thread subject, and you jumping in with any minor bit of egoism that you think hasn't been conclusively proven (*)(*)(*)(*) is called harassment. Your continual dishonest accusations and deliberate twisting of context in order to justify your ego driven judgement that your slaughter was not actually happening because I am somehow dumber than you because you lie about my behavior? Yeah, that's called harassment.

Notice the TOS?

(4) Personal Attacks:

ATTACK THE MESSAGE, NOT THE MESSENGER - Any statement directed at or about another member of Political Forum that is derogatory in nature will be considered a 'Personal Attack'.

Derogatory comments, insults, name-calling, etc. that are, or appear in the judgement of moderators intended to be, directed personally at other forum members are not permitted. This forum is a place for 'respectful debate' - other forum members should not be regarded as the subject of the discussions. Members must not attack or harass (by repeated personal attack, accusation, baiting, trolling, posting/demanding personal information, etc.) other members in discussion threads, or in any other forum areas (Social Groups, Visitor Messages, Private Messages, Reputation Comments, etc.), even if they believe their attack/insult to be 'true' or 'fact'.

(3) It is very tempting to follow another user's train of thought beyond the scope of the debate. This is understandable. However, we highly encourage our users to respect the intent of the established thread and try to keep focused on the topic. Threads that diverge may be relocated to a more approriate category, or split into new discussions. Continuing to stray may result in user's post(s) being deleted or may encourage the thread to be locked early. Please create new threads for new topics.

(5) Flamebaiting.

DELIBERATELY INFLAMING OTHERS IS NOT 'RESPECTFUL DEBATE'

Threads, posts or comments that appear (in the judgment of the moderators) to have been expressed in a manner specifically designed or intended to elicit emotionally charged responses or personal attacks from others are not permitted

I do not have to defend myself aginst your stupidity, you are not my judge, you are not a mod, and your behavior is reprehensible. Any further attempts to start a fight because you lost a series of debates will simply be reported

You lost, grow the (*)(*)(*)(*) up.

 

#1 - it would be exceedingly difficult to prove.

#2 - the one that is best will, over time, reveal itself

 

I am sorry that you feel persecuted because my views. You asked for an example and were given one. In that example 8 logical fallacies, consisting mostly of Ad Hom and misrepresentation were pointed out and you failed to refute even one.

I will give you another example.

In the above post myself and another poster were discussing meanings of words in the Bible.

You chime in .. giving your 2 cents

Immediately your verbiage is disrespectfull and full of personal attacks with no substantiation.

You accuse "dishonesty", even though I was quoting translations from different Bibles, yet you do not say what this dishonesty was.

You then proceed to various Ad Hom (blissfully ignorant Athiest) and never contribute anything of substance.

You talk about some texts that cooberate your opinion but fail to provide any even though I have given quotes from 2 different Bibles in support of my opinion and comment on 6 other Bibles

Rather than address the numerous points that were made .. you choose to attack the person and your commentary consists of no material other personal attack.

Then somehow you figure that personal attacks have somehow refuted the points being made.

 

I am sorry that you have ignored my repeated entreaties to drop your personal swill. I am not the subject of this thread. Your post is reported.