Athiests do not accept miracles

How about a forum 'cage match?!'

"The Gifted One vs. the Neutralizer"

Right here, happening NOW, on PF!!

Across multiple threads!!

Taking it from the Forum into the streets!!


BE THERE!​

 

Not a single thing you did above is relevant to this thread gifted. Rather, you went through and pulled things out of context, deliberately misrepresenting what is being said with partial quotes and misleading quotes (strawmen), in order to justify a personal quest for vengence.

Put a cork in it. I have said this repeatedly, I have no desire to be a part of your silly quest for vengence. I am tired of rebutting the same points over and over again, only to see you dishonestly twist what is said, use blatant strawmen, and watch your homoerotic fixation deepen into silly ass accusations based on partial and deliberately misleading quotes.

An example.

Here is the full quote.

And yet you leave off 80% of the quote? The remainder that makes it clear that your attempts are banal and silly?

Whose fault is it that you do this? That you just pretend things that are said are not said so you can pursue your silly ass personal game of vengence?

Do you see the topic head? The topic is not, why I hate neutral for standing up to me because I am a big baby!

 

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to have a conversation about a subject without a homerotic athtard seeking you out with a bunch of panzy assed accusations?

But you are helping me make a point.

Besides OD, you are clearly wrong. Gifted has stated that there is nothing personal in this - so clearly, you are just wrong! Gifted is NEVER wrong, so ... well, you do the math.

 

Hey, the winner of this match takes on "The OverDriver", who already won his long-running match today.....

 

And what are we supposed to do when a guy with half your intelligence and an oversized ego picks a fight?

 

Well, YOU had better NOT win your match, cause if it's "The Neutralizer," looks like he and "The OverDriver" will end up 'dancing with each other..

As my coaches used to say, "Shake it of.".......often very HARD to do!

 

There some things that remain unexplained. However the VAST majority of so called miracles are claimed by either well meaning people who are mistaken , or charlatans who want to profit off the weak. Skepticism is important. You must weigh the evidence before making a claim or believing in the supernatural.

Superstition often leads to idiocy and opens the door for gullible people to be taken advantage of. Think of Benny hinn who performs miracles while making sure to collect old ladies pensions, or people who pray around a piece of toast with the "face of Jesus " on it. There are actually people in Africa who hunt "witches" and beat or even kill them because they think their neighbor cursed their cow or some (*)(*)(*)(*). This is why I'm suspicious of any claims of miracles.

 

You're doing it again so I have to ask. What "literal" hell happened in your life that led you to believe in the existence of God instead of that event being a natural occurence? You said you were shown.

I haven't witnessed what I would call hell but I have no doubt whatsoever that those in the holocaust did.

Bettina

 

I did not take anything you said out of context nor misrepresent your meaning.

The difference between my post and yours is that I give examples of the logical fallacy and misrepresentations that I accuse you of making.

All you do is spout out unsupported accusations.

If you are going to accuse someone of something then at least give an example of where they have committed the offense they are accused of. (Like I do)

If not .. you are just blowing smoke.

You did not address or refute even one of the 8 logical fallacies you were accused of.

 

Do you want some cheese with that whine ?

You were the one that asked me to prove my accusations.

Then when I post 8 logical fallacies -giving examples for each - from just one of your posts you fail to rebut even one.

You then go on a rant accusing me of all kinds of things but give zero valid examples.

 

If we have 'proven' another to be wrong/illogical, does that in any way demonstrate that we have 'proven' ourselves to be right/logical?
What have we shown by simply indulging in the struggle between the concepts?
Should we pat ourselves on the back and stroke our ego when we 'win'?

All I hear is pure static...... perpetual white noise!

 

Nothing miraculous going on here!

 

Well, you'd be wrong.

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/05/scientifically-documented-miracles.html

Not only are their scores of documented miracles, in which the standards of science are used to document them, but they are clearly not just the result of well intentioned but mislead people. The very definition of a miracles is something that occures without an obvious explanation. Science documents them happening, but offers no definitive solution to them happening. None.

Miracles exist. Yoru hypothesis is directly discorroberrated by evidence. Its simply wrong.

But then that is the point of this thread, atheists will not acknowledge miracles.

 

Yep, and then you went with partial quotes, changed your thesis in mid stride, deliberately misrepresented what was said, the context, and the rebuttal in order to lie about me. That is not defending anything.

Its simply acting childish because you lost a debate and need to keep reintroducing something with another homoerotic fixation.

A reminder (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)r, TOS says to leave the poster alone. Now kindly do so. You've already been beaten on these subjects, and you make an ass out of yourself with a grudge. Stay within the TOS and there will be no problem child.

I have no desire to engage with a perpetually dishonest poster with an axe to grind. You lost, deal with it like an adult please.

 

Well, you raise an interesting point, and one that is worth bringing up. People with faith generally speaking, do better than those without faith in extremely trying circumstances. This is what many halocaust survivors have said, its what many former POW's have said, and its a correlation that the US military has found after a decade of war and Soldiers dealing with the after effects of combat trauma.

Why do you think that is?

 

An imaginary shoulder to cry on is better than none at all?

 

So that is a scientific opinion? Or an appeal to emotion when science conflicts with you opinion?

And you cannot prove that there is no God, not with science, so your entire contention is ... apparently, nothing but mean.

There is nothing in atheism that requires someone to lash out at another's faith.

BTW - the way the US military pushes it is simple - "We don't care what faith you choose, but its beneficial for what we have to ask you do, so we encourage you to find something that will strengthen this aspect of your life." That would include secular humanism - which is now an imaginary shoulder to cry on? Makes no sense.

 

Neither, just a theory, so I'll ignore the rest of your post.

 

I acknowledged that there are things that can't be explained. A number of UFO sightings have compelling evidence. However you ignored what I said about skepticism. Do you think Benny hinn performs miracles or is he a sleazy predator ? You dont think its important to continually questoon the accuracy of things ypu hear in order to not get taken advantage of?

What about non-christian miracles? If a Wiccan says a spell has made her rich who's to say she lies?

I'm also not an atheist. Agnostic deist is more accurate.

 

Oh, so you have a 'parachute' packed, just in case?

 

Exactly . Any individual with a focus and an imagined ( or real) support network feels empowered .
And that is great .
I encourage it constantly and believe people committed to something like Jesus or God or both , invariably make great citizens .
From a personal point of view , such crutch systems are intellectually offensive , but if one form of placebo helps one group , why decry another gullible group the use of a different type of placebo of their choice ?
And if they think they are looked after and set up for after life , so be it .
What is the point of ridding a patient of delusions unless you have something better to offer as a replacement ?

 

No one thinks someone getting rich is a miracle. If that is what she says - more power to her, most people in this modern age will look at her business strategy and go from there.

If she were walking around casting spells that cured cancer? I guarantee you that would get attention. She isn't. Wiccans don't.

In fact, that exact premise plays out in the Bible - Pagan religions tried tio challenge God and ... as we see in the modern world of religions - lost.

BTW - you do realize that God is creator of ALL men? Why would he deny them compassion simply because they are not Christian? He cares about ALL of us, not just those of us who acknowledge him. As a former atheist, I can say that with a great deal of certainty.

 

And that is where we disagree. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with faith, I have problems with, as you put it, that faith is intellectually offensive.

Those kind of comments are frankly intellectyally offensive. Science cannot disprove God, and indeed, there are a great many things that point uite strongly to the possibility of something besides nothing - even Einstein agreed.

And yet, atheists walk around snooting at faith? What is it you thinks drives atheism? Its faith.

Science leads striaght to agnosticism. Yet atheists are there anyway?

It should lead to open minds, not cat calls of teh intellectual derision of others. THAT behavior is, IMO, where atheism is defunct. It is why, honestly, I left atheism. Far too often, I found myself and other atheists just lashing out against faith. Yet faith when explored honestly, is anything but bad.

At some point, you find yourself needlessly bashing people and belittling them, and you realize that if you truely value such non scietific things like honor, compassion, open mindedness, inclusion, genuine curiosity, that atheism is not much help.

And the part where I think atheists struggle in trying times is that illusion that they have it all figured out. So when they are severely pressed, and have no answers? They crumble. There is no other solution.

But its a poor man indeed who things we are going it alone. Even secular humanists understand that.

 

I must admit this intrigued me. Do you have any sources I can easily look at for that angle you speak of? And also any sources that indicate secular humanism is on equal footing with religious beliefs in terms of helping cope with stress?

 

You will have to research militaru risilency. There is a lot of discussion about it in the military. The bottom line in the science presented is that anything is better than nothing.