Ireland bakery stops serving all wedding cakes so they can't be made to do gay ones

My position is similar to Patrick Stewart's http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/05/patrick-stewart-anti-gay-bakery_n_7521450.html

[video=youtube;-54iiqwSYu8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=38&v=-54iiqwSYu8[/video]

 

You think the holocaust is comparable with a gay wedding?
Yeah .... I think somewhere I think you fail.

 

Are you saying a homosexual couple is as evil as Nazis? I would beg to differ.

 

You "think" so, well you may be are wrong. Why should someone who holds a view whatever its basis be degraded by your thoughts. Killing people or killing morals are just virtues to many people.

 

Typically he said nothing of any note worthiness regarding this issue other than his quotation of :

" the greatest virtue is courage because it makes all other virtues possible"

And lets applaud the courage of these cake decorators to stand by their convictions of their beliefs.

 

He said what needed to be said.

 

So then you're saying that in this case, (and probably in many others) it would be OK to deny that request, right? But why do YOU get to judge that baker, and tell him what he MUST or MUST NOT do with HIS PROPERTY under these kinds of circumstances? It has nothing to do with the degree of depravity according to an arbitrator's opinion as long as it is legal! That same baker may have been a German who had no problem baking a cake with a swastika on it when requested to do so! Are you also going to tell him he can't do that because it happens to offend YOU? It's no business of yours whether he chooses to do so or not, and he should have the same right to make that decision in EVERY case!

 

Sweden has had same sex unions for some time now. Same sex marriages make up ONE HALF of ONE PERCENT of all weddings. There is no potential of doubling their wedding cake business here.
And Im an atheist so not really qualified to speculate as to these Christians motives, but I suspect their religion takes precedence over their profit motive.

 

I say kudos as well. Finally a Christian baker willing to sacrifice his living for his faith, rather than impose his faith -based bigotry on the community. I don't know what Irish civil rights law says, but I have no doubt this fine man would have chosen to give up his shop rather than flout the laws that govern his professionl.. He did the right thing. Now if we can find conservative Christian bakers and florists in the states who will do the same thing and honor the law, with enough class not to whine that they have to.

I hope he finds something he can do, enjoy and prosper at that does not conflict with either his faith or Irish law.

 

I would think a 30 year old atheist baker with no connection whatsoever to events under the Nazis, should be able to refuse to bake a Nazi cake or a same sex marriage cake. And since the free exercise of religion is a Constitutional right, even more deference needs to be given when a conflict with the owners religious beliefs are involved.
AND I would argue not baking a same sex wedding cake has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the customers. Not discrimination prohibited by laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Religions don't limit marriage to men and women in order to exclude homosexuals. They do so because only men and women create families. Only men and women become fathers and mothers to their children.

 

Cake sucks anyway. As long as they are still making cherry pie and donuts I don't care if they ever make another cake again.

 

No and No. There is no right to compel what amounts to speech in this manner. It's telling though when people resort to absurd hypotheticals to make their point.

When running a business stops being about providing good service to your customers, it's time to find a new profession.

 

Assume me & explain exactly what he said that was so noteworthy.

 

in America we only say they have to sell the basic wedding cake, we do not force bakers to say things against their beliefs, that is considered art\personal service, not a product, but that ONLY includes the artwork

now if they have 5 wedding cakes on display as for sale, then they are then products, then they have to sell them as is as otherwise it's false advertising as well as discrimination as they are on display as for sale

it's a fine line, you can't have restaurants saying they wont cook blacks a hamburger is artwork though, so only the artwork on the cake is excluded, not the basic wedding cake itself

.

 

Nonsense, if someone were to refuse to bake this Bert and Ernie cake, it would simply be presumed to be discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, in the locations with such statutes.

 

it would be discrimination, that is fact

but it would not be illegal to not decorate the cake with that artwork.... that is also fact

 

I SAID it wouldnt be discrimination on the BASIS OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION. They would be equally opposed to marriage between two heterosexuals of the same sex. Religions limitation of marriage to men and women has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation.

 

not selling the cake is though....

 

He makes the important distinction between refusing to do something based on the message being conveyed and not on who wants that message sent.

 

Nope. Not selling cakes, brownies or any baked goods to homosexuals would be discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Not baking same sex wedding cakes is a religious distinction because their religion limits marriage to MEN AND WOMEN and does NOT limit marriage to heterosexuals.

 

Just to reiterate the cake had NOTHING to do with a gay wedding itself. It was simply a cake that had a message about supporting gay weddings in general. One is for a specific event and does not mean the baker actually condones it (think of how TV stations have disclaimers before those early morning infomercials) and the other is specifically political speech and no one should be forced to print or repeat political messages they do not agree with. It seems that some posters do not care about that very important concept and would rather just bully everyone into only saying stuff they agree with. I would expect a Jewish baker to serve a Muslim and even make make a generic Muslim wedding cake, I would not expect the same Jewish baker to be forced to make a pro ISIS cake for a Muslim.

Honestly, I can't tell if some people just aren't intelligent enough to see the distinction or they just don't care and can't be bothered to put any effort into critical thinking.

 

I don't think ANY baker, whether they are Jewish or not, should have to bake ANY cake they don't wish to bake.

 

Most of these Christian bakers who have run into trouble with the law, would have refused to bake a same sex wedding cake, REGARDLESS of who it was that was requesting the cake.

 

I absolutely agree. No baker should be forced to marry someone of the same sex or be required to participate in a homosexual sex act. there is not one syllable in the any of the three major bibles prohibiting the baking or decorating of cakes for any marriage or for homosexuals.

 

But this thread is not about "most of these Christian bakers", rather one incident with a different set of facts.