Ireland bakery stops serving all wedding cakes so they can't be made to do gay ones

Cant imagine what it is you are agreeing with. NO ONE is discussing forcing bakers to marry anyone or engage in sex act with anyone. I guess you are scampering about looking for the next strawman to busy yourself with.

 

AAAAAAnd I suspect in this one incident with a different set of facts, THIS Christian Baker would have refused to bake the cake regardless of who it is that was requesting the cake. So not sure of your point.

 

it's still decriminalization, just legal discrimination not to do the artwork

just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not still discrimination

be like saying slavery wasn't slavery when it was legal

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I am distinguishing between what these 'bibles' actually preclude and what these bibles do not preclude. Being as no one is discussing forcing bakers to marry anyone or engage in sex acts with anyone and those are the acts precluded by scripture, there is no religious issue worthy of an exemption from civil rights laws.

 

What's so absurd about it? The point being made is that you feel YOU should be able to determine when an inappropriate line is being crossed! Are you partners in that bakery? Then what gives YOU the right to determine what another should or shouldn't do with HIS PROPERTY? Does he tell you that you should be required to sell your house because you may be living next door to a racist or a homophobe? Why can't you libs keep your nose out of every else's business?

And a business owner can make the decision about what is "good service" all by himself! He doesn't need a political activist to tell him he doesn't belong in his chosen profession! Who the hell do you think you are?

 

No one claimed it wasn't discrimination. I said it wasn't discrimination based upon sexual orientation.

 

do not disagree, it's based on the gender of the couples... it's gender discrimination, they would also discriminate against two male heterosexuals wanting to marry

regardless of what type of discrimination it is, that is what it is... discrimination

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Why should only religious preferences get any air time?
If you could say no to someone because of your religious beliefs, why does that trump your every day beliefs and preferences?

Why do religious beliefs get so much more credibility?

What if I had a business and just didn't like black people or gay people or white people or straight people?
Why does it HAVE to be a RELIGIOUS context to abstain if that's my choice?

The truth is, it's all about human nature. Humans are haters to a large extent. It's built in.
I would say the majority of humans have some built in tendencies toward discrimination one way or the other, it's just suppressed.

But look how well forced acceptance works !!!!!!!!!!
Has FORCED acceptance of things that go against your beliefs worked? Is America becoming more unified or more divided?

Are the millennials more accepting of each other today? Is racism on the way out?
How about acceptance of others religious beliefs?

Seems we are FAR more divided today than ever and its getting worse. A powder keg waiting for a spark.
Or maybe it's just the people over 35 - 40ish ???

 

one thing I find amazing is how around the world peoples views are evolving at around the same rate, the same issues we face here many others also face

 

Your suspicions are not facts. This bakery has reportedly refused cakes before that contain pornography or foul language.

 

But, "the judge ruled they cannot discriminate against LGBTI people".

 

Aaaaaand this bakery "stops serving all wedding cakes so they can't be made to do gay ones"

 

There are 5 classic French mother sauces. That information is just as relevant as the cake at issue was not a wedding cake, but one requested for a political group function.

 

The fact that your hypotheticals would almost certainly never occur in the real world.

The point is that this is a discussion forum, and I'm allowed to have and express my own opinion on the matter, whether you agree with me or not.

Technically, it's not up to me. It's a matter of law. What gives a baker the right to defy the law, simply because he owns property? Property owners are far from exempt from the law.

Another absurd example.

Read my signature. I don't do this whole "lib" vs. "con" thing. It bores me to tears.

Anti-discrimination laws have been adopted through the representative legal process. It would seem that we, as a society, have decided that undue discrimination based on characteristics irrelevant to the transaction, are not good for society. Do you want a cooperative society in which people are able to get along despite the tensions that surround their differences? Or a divisive one, constantly in turmoil, where hate is considered a virtue?

Make no mistake - I'm not expecting everything to be puppies and rainbows while we all sit around the campfire, holding hands and singing songs. I'm not an idealist. I'm well aware that hatred, bigotry, and ignorance will always be with us to some degree.

And if his idea of good service is to give his customers attitude or to discriminate without just cause, you can be sure that some will become ex-customers, if they're able.

True - I think he'll discover it for himself when he tries to screw over his customers.

Who am I? Someone who doesn't answer questions like the above responsively, and tends to ignore the people who ask them.

 

and as I said in the first post, in America we do it different.... this was in Ireland

 

we have just had the first Black President ever, I would expect that would stir up those that never wanted a black man to be their leader

I think we have come a long way, but I think some do not like that change and will fight for the old ways, slavery did not die easy either....


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Dont confuse your inability to perceive the relevance, with a lack of relevance. It shows the absurdity of Captain Picards distinction.

 

They do it the same in that it was considered illegal discrimination because it was considered to be discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. JUST like here in the US.

 

Only in California where they ban "arbitrary" discrimination. In the other 49 states it is only discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin, and some states have added sexual orientation, that is considered illegal.

 

You've never been to Ireland have you? The Republic is more religious than even Bible belt America.

 

The problem is, though, where do you stop? This is a small isolated incident, what would happen if larger business, chains etc.stated to pick and choose who they trade with? "Sorry, we don't serve Christians/Jews/Hindus etc", "Sorry we are a Mexican owned shop and we don't serve English speakers, only Spanish speakers". What if these businesses are the only one of their type in a small rural town. "Sorry, if you want your car fixed you have to drive to the next town".

 

None of this is relevant to the case in Northern Ireland, as these examples would be covered by criminal law.

 

They wanted a cake baked and it was them who provided the artwork.

 

if all the baker was doing was baking the cake and the customer was gonna provide the controversial artwork, then I see no issue with it, sell them the cake

 

Yeah, that's why Ireland is the first and only country in the world to introduce same sex marriage via a popular vote, has dwindling church attendances, and a Church that has lost almost all of its political influence (see SS marriage referendum and child abuse cover ups)

I suspect you visited rural areas that are still relatively conservative, as with most places in Europe. In the last ten years, Ireland had had the largest increase, anywhere in Europe, of people stating they have no religion.

I am not religious, but I am also not anti-religion. When you have large sections of the hierarchy, of any organisation, facilitating paedophiles for decades by not reporting them to the police and by moving them to other areas where they can knowingly rape again and again. And then continue with such actions of evasion, denial, and movement of paedophiles while the investigations are were ongoing, whilst still claiming this systematic behaviour was all in the past. It also has to be noted that, as Cardinal Ratzinger, the former pope knew of and spent seven years debating with himself about whether he should do something about one such paedophile that was move to a parish in the US, Boston I think, to reoffend.

It is not difficult to understand how this would impact on the general view people have of the Church. I think the upcoming 2016 census will give a much better indication of the religious nature of the country.

To be fair, Ireland is still seen as a conservative Christian country by many in Europe, and in part this is true. But to claim that Ireland's religious makeup is a kin to 'The Bible Belt' is simply not true.