Wahington state becomes first US state to recognize as holodomor as genocide.

Hiroshima 100 000. Nagasaki.60 000, not Evan close to your crimes against humanity . + check out life quality in Hiroshima and Nagasaki today and in eastern Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova other regions which you guys raped so brutally

 

That was war, in fact it ended the war, and was not genocide.

 

+ numbers of killed have been way less than during all kobas/sovoks genocides

 

It is (H)holodomor, not G, .

 

And if it would've not bringed fast end to war - how many MORE bombs would've been dropped, how many more CITIES would've been obliterated?

 

Uh huh, how far would've stalin went in Europe? Right up to the English channel?

 

Japanese built their comfort THEMSELVES, nobody did it for them.

Same goes for Ukraine, Belarus and Moldova, and RF. We have what we make, and what we made - was a fast and efficient reconstruction after the war that devastated majority of developed territory of Soviet Union, free education and healthcare, pensions, efficient public transportation, leading space program, advancements in medicine, physics, chemistry, progress of industry and society to point where view of people from 30th became outdated and obsolete for us, where we stood over the Stalin's brutality - over the level where you - not USA, YOU, Litwin - are still sitting at. We moved forward, became self-dependent, and you are still sitting in mentality of age of repressions, or even age imperialism, nurturing delusions about some sort of anti-russian coalition. On top of THAT all,

It's not the numbers what matters, it's the actions. And point is - the bombings in Japan were, and ARE criminal. Not you, nor USA politicians and media, can hide behind Soviet Union forever - either one day these people need to wake up and stop smearing excuses over their own history, or they will end up repeating these crimes, over and over again.

 

And beyond. During his lifetime, I remind you, forces from France, British Empire, United States and even Japan have been invading Russia, during the Civil War, and attempting to establish government loyal to them. Albeit I do not say he was a some sort of pink-cheeked innocent angel, I point to you that he SAW invaders in the country he was born in, and especially saw them during the WWII, when Germany attacked Union despite all the agreements and diplomacy they had. Again, not that it was not worthy of shame to make agreements with nazy, but not that it was something unique for the time too. After all, France and Britain never came to resque of poles during the "Phoney war".

So I am pretty much sure that Stalin, eventually, would've indeed had a war in Europe. But he didn't, he died before country recovered from second World War to point where it became capable of efficiently waging an assaulting war, and only thing I regret there is that he was not mummified like Lenin - he would've been quite curious exhibit to glare on.

So yes, Stalin was a quite terrible person...

What kind of person was man who issued orders to drop nuclear weapons on innocent people in CITIES? Women, children, newborns, either slaughtered in minutes, or suffering for hours, days and months from radiation and their bodies falling apart cell by cell?

So stop HIDING behind Stalin, Union, and whatever else you may bring in to EX-CU-SE yourself.

 

Do you really suppose that folks don't see them? The state of Washington didn't have to express this as a resolution for me to understand it already. Why do you suppose that a state senate resolution is significant in any way, or will effect public opinion sufficiently to exercise some vast reshape of public awareness?

 

because we are talking about it now. The fact you and I knew about this horror doesn't mean everyone else did. It made the papers and hopefully the world will know the truth of what happened, and what is happening.

 

What value is there in "everyone" knowing? Can you be assured that "everyone" didn't already know, or that having this conversation actually will produce a state where everyone would know?

I doubt that folks in this country are that motivated to invest in the horrors of the past. They can't get past the horror of a cell phone battery that doesn't last more than an hour. They can't get past that some might not agree with them, and feel they must be protected from those folks. Are you serious?

Worse, it's liberals in the world who are the progenitors of this type of horror. How do you suppose that the liberal politic in Washington state believe that their version is somehow less ghastly than those in Bolshevik Russia?

 

That's why it's very surprising that a bolshevik state like Washington is recognizing this genocide.

 

Well, what have happened, and what IS happening, in your opinon?

 

another uneducated trumpster that doesnt know what a bolshevik is.

 

Sorry, but the confusion is all yours. Not only have I studied these systems extensively, I've been able to do so from the perspective of both a LWer and RWer, which has enabled me to approach the study of these systems from a wider and more objective perspective than True Believers such as yourself. Furthermore, I have had the benefit of growing up during the Cold War era when the USSR and the Communist Bloc existed and I have friends who immigrated here from those countries.

That's a completely worthless observation, and it's a typical response from those who seek to whitewash the failures and crimes of their ideologies and ideological co-travelers. As the old saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with intentions, and there's no better example of that than Communism and Socialism (if one is willing to overlook the intrinsic authoritarian and criminal nature of those systems and the lust for power and control exhibited by those who developed and imposed those systems on others). In the real world intentions don't count for anything - what counts are results/outcomes. This is particularly pertains to systems such as Communism and Socialism that are intended to replace existing systems and produce better results but wind up producing worse results.

Yes, any system can be corrupted and exploited to produce negative results, and I'll add that no system is perfect. On the other hand, some systems inherently and invariably produce negative results. Socialism and National Socialism are two examples.

I don't mix these systems up and its obvious that you need to take your own advice.

On this we may agree, because I don't perceive these systems and how they relate to one another in a linear manner as so many people do. Furthermore, while I do speak in terms in Left and Right and it is often useful to do so, sometimes it is better to arrange the systems in a manner where Individualism and Statism are the polar opposites of the political spectrum.

LOL - Now, that claim is simply preposterous, and it doesn't withstand the least amount of scrutiny on many levels, most particularly fact and History.

If Capitalism has tended to lead anywhere it has been towards socialism, not fascism. Since the Industrial Revolution the capitalist nations of the West have increasingly embraced socialism producing the hybrid systems and massive welfare states that we find in Europe, America and elsewhere.

Furthermore, you haven't been paying attention to socialist ideologues and theoreticians like your old buddy Marx who, I hate to say it, correctly pointed out that mature capitalist societies lead to socialism. This is why we constantly hear socialists babbling about the impending collapse of capitalism during and after every major economic downturn (ex., the Great Depression and Great Recession). However, typical of economic cycles, these downturns have always led to recovery instead of collapse.

Only?

Even if that was true, and it's not, that would be far too simplistic and narrow to be true.

Why should I think of capitalism in the misleading terms of anti-capitalist individuals, groups and parties that don't understand what free market capitalism is and how i works? When you strip free market capitalism of the voluntary and beneficial aspects that have helped make capitalist societies the freest and most prosperous nations on earth, you're not only being dishonest you're overlooking the demise of the socialist nations that competed against it failed. Certainly, capitalism is not perfect, but it has produced an increase in living standards that the defunct states in the Communist/Socialist Bloc were never able to produce. This reality and pattern is repeating itself in Venezuela today where another nation that has embraced socialism has led to yet another descent into dictatorship and destitution.

Furthermore, on a personal level, I am not exploited nor do I feel exploited. I do what I want for a living and I earn the wage that I negotiated with my employer. We have a voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship that serves and advances both of our interests. If you feel exploited, I would suggest that you have a personal problem.

Grossly inaccurate, as I pointed out earlier.

Oh my, eeeeeeeevil corporations. It's amusing how you overlook the fact that an all-powerful centralized government is far more dangerous than a bunch of corporations with different and competing interests who don't wield the unfettered power of a Socialist or National Socialist state.

Another thing that makes Fascists like Socialists, but given Fascism's roots in Socialism that shouldn't surprise anyone.

LOL - whut?

Was the USSR a democracy? Red China? Castro's gulag? Look at Venezuela - the socialists are destroying democracy in that country.

The political and economic inequality that was and is rampant in actual socialist societies completely eviscerates your fanciful claims. Your comments exist entirely in a theoretical utopian fantasy that is completely divorced from reality, and that's the problems with socialists - they live in an imaginary world with an imaginary humanity.

 

another deflective response from a progressive who refuses to acknowledge the truth of who the leading bolsheviks were

 

Russia made life hell for Jews for centuries. When the Czar weakened politically, the mass of angry Jews took over the under the guise of communism and laid waste to ethnic Russians and Ukrainians, especially Christians. This quote from Trotsky is enough to tell you how little they cared for Russia; Don't you dare sit here and tell me the bolsheviks gave a damn about Russia or the Russian people.

 

Actually, you just lied to us once.

 

First of all - cut down antagonism.
Second - they were a political party, they were not supposed to be caring much about people.

They got what they cared for - power over the country, through a coup and then victory in the Russian Civil War.

I disagree that Bolsheviks been a jewish organisation, or that they formed because jews lived that much worse than other ethnics in Empire - they lived pretty much same way as in majority of other countries at the time. Also, I point to you that February Revolution happened almost without involvement of Bolsheviks, and that they only established their power after the coup in October, known as October Revolution, when they got Provisional Government arrested and prevented Constituent Assembly from being performed.

 

The numbers don't matter. Genocide is one thing and war is another. They are not the same.

 

Am I the only one that had to google it?

my first thought was game of thrones.



anyways, i'm curious, what if anything does this have to do with Washington state?

 

Still havent looked the word up yet have you

 

You're expressing some mighty curious sentiments there, Ninian.

Sure, the Bolsheviks got the only thing that socialists ever care for - power and control - but how were they not supposed to care much about people?

With all due respect, I find that attitude and/or expectation irresponsible if not dangerous. When we don't expect political parties to care much about people we wind up with monsters like the Bolsheviks, Nazis and Khmer Rouge and their genocides, and some might argue that we deserve them.