Wahington state becomes first US state to recognize as holodomor as genocide.

Dzerzhinsky and Beria...non Jews? I don't know about that, especially Dzerzhinsky(polish Jew?).

 

First of all, people were not getting executed because of their religious views, mostly that was happening because of their political views or actual crimes that get death penalty.

Second, during the period of active atheism all religions in Union been persecuted, Judaism included.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

Also, there have been cases of persecution of jews, albeit they more likely related to other factors, than their nationality or religion. So called "Doctor's Plot" is one of the most well famous of such incidents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

But generally in that time course was against all religions, albeit it did not lasted that long, and Union ended up with relibious organisations existing, but not being in favour of government in any way.

 

Jews were murdered in the Gulags just as non-Jews.

my own great-uncle, who was a Major in the Soviet military during WW2 and was given an award by Soviet Commander Marshall Zhukov, was sent to the coal mine in 1952 and died a year later. His crime? "Zionism".

its absurd to suggest Jews were not persecuted by the Soviets.

Synagogues destroyed. Zionism deemed illegal. Many murdered.

stop believing Neo-Nazi lies.

 

Beria was Georgian Orthodox.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky was of Polish and Lithuanian aristocracy. As a child, before taking to Marxist ideology, Felix considered becoming a Jesuit priest.


its nothing but Neo-Nazi LIES to claim these men were all JEWS!!!!

 

I knew Dzerzhinsky had polish in him, and Beria was gruzin, i thought they had some Jewish heritage. I'm assuming Molotov was Jewish of half Jew, the one who along with Ribbentrop carved up Poland?

 

Do you know where or what part your great uncle fought at at russian front? I had same as you, great uncle, but was corporal or (obergefreiter), 14th waffen grenadier division der SS, late 43-44.

 

Uh, I do not beleive, your great uncle was a fascist? SS was the worst organization in Nazi Germany- they controlled all the concentration camps.

 

He volunteered, couldn't stand the NKVD, who killed some of his close friends during holodomor.

 

I'll contact my dead great-uncle, Major Jan Skala of the Czech Division of the Soviet Army, and ask him how many Nazi SS he wasted.

 

Don't get on that bait. First of all - it is a blunt and open trolling.

Second, even if his relative fought in german army - HE is not responsible for that, he was not present, his great uncle might have had his reasons, and might have been a decent, good even, person. SS - was just a part of army, it wasn't automatically turning people into heartless monsters. He fought, either he lived or died, does not matters. That war is long time over, and what done is done. No point in arguing over that.

 

SS was not just a part of army. SS is the most awful and monsterous part of Geman army. In fact, all the people that served in SS were recognized as сriminals by Nuremberg International Tribunal. Good person in SS...sounds rediculous.

 

Nurnberg process did not looked in case of every member of SS personally, if I am correct. They simply condemned all these people - not sure how many of them survived end of the war and their country's capitulation - the people on trial, many of them, have surrendered, I remind you - but according to wiki the number of members of SS was somewhat around a million in August of 1945.

As I said, not necessarily everybody who served there was an abomination of a person, they all were HUMANS, and humans can do wrong things for not sake of being awful persons.

Also, I point to you a fact that his great uncle served in Waffen SS - auxilary military group of SS, that included national divisions, 14th being the ukrainian "Galician". One of things people who served there were expecting was a full german citizenship after the few years of service.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/СС#.D0.9A.D0.BE.D0.BC.D0.BF.D0.BB.D0.B5.D0.BA.D1.82.D0.BE.D0.B2.D0.B0.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B5

I do not know, if the citizenship offer was similar to French Foreign Legion and for only serving person, or their close families were included in that deal, but I find that being important point to know - there was more reasons for service in auxilary SS forces, than just stubborn hatred, clownish nationalism, or thirst for some sort of revenge.

Many members of SS did lots of terrible things, members of Waffen SS included - but not all of them. Still, it is all in the past regardless. It is done, and cannot be changed - yet we can't keep living with grudges and hatreds created by this war forever, we have to move on, and let them go.

 

All SS members were humans? No. They were not humans. They put themselves outside of the human laws, so human laws were not applicable to them, and therefore all of them should have been sentenced to death. I am surprized at you tolerance to Nazis. There is no way to say- let it go. It does not work this way.

 

I am tolerant to people. Nearly all people in that war thought they are fighting for a right cause, especially when their families and homes were at stake - point through which went all sides of conflict on one or another stage of that war. War, that ended over a 70 years ago, since which a whole generations passed, which is in the past, in the history, way behind us. It IS time to let it all go already.

Not all people are ideal, not all people are awful, and always there is a mix of both. No humans are, were, or likely will be different from that. So, as history moves on, we should too.

 

Tolerance to anyone and everything is in fact, very dangerous. Tolerance to fascsism resulted in WW2. Tolerance today results in heavy problems with refugees in Europe. So you suggest to forget about what was 70 years ago or what?

 

The Waffen-SS (German pronunciation: [ˈvafən.ɛs.ɛs], Armed SS) was the armed wing of the Nazi Party's SS organisation.

At the post-war Nuremberg trials the Waffen-SS was judged to be a criminal organisation due to its connection to the Nazi Party and involvement in numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity. Former Waffen-SS members were denied many of the rights afforded to the military veterans.

 

It was not tolerance, that allowed fascism to flourish in Italy and Germany, both among their citizens and among politicians of surrounding countries. It was not tolerance, that caused the refugee crisis in Europe, and refugees were not invited there for sake of altruism.

Do not mistake the mistakes of politicians with tolerance, latest is a personal ability to tolerate other people, while knowing their certain traits you dislike. If I do not like people who shave their head bald that does not makes them bad people, that means I personally find this being disgusting, repulsive and sickening way to look - but still, I am accepting them, even if not liking them.

You are, right now, arguing with me about necessity to condemn a person you know nearly nothing about for the army they served in. I reminded you, that they may have had many various reasons to fight in that army, not necessarily been a bad person, and that you shouldn't waste time on "exchanging pleasantries" over the matter.

They may, or may not have been a bad person, they may or may not have committed war crimes, they may or may not regretted what they did after war's end. You do not know, and I do not know, and even the Zoom himself not necessarily knows that. Point is - it's pointless to discuss. Person dead, Third Reich defeated, war ended seven decades ago, non of us even lived by that time, not to mention participating in it. There is simply nothing to discuss.

And as for me having understanding of people being people regardless of their allegiance - well, if you want to discuss that - we can do it in private chat. I can only say that I studied history - mostly the antient one - for long enough to understand that humans are always being humans, and that trying to pretend that we are significantly different is pointless. Each of us is capable of monstrous acts, if we will allow ourselves to simply act as a monster. Under whatever excuse will be found, crime will remain a crime. During wars - many people have excuses for horrible acts, main of these excuses being a "declaration of war" - a perverted act of two countries giving not just permission, but a direct order to their populations to start exterminating each other.

Ideological differences do not change us - we continue to feel, breathe, bleed, and care for our families. And regardless of how bloody was yet another war, how many people died, how many lives been lost, who won, who benefitted from it, we eventually have to admit - it was war of humans with humans, and the most terrible things on that war been done by regular. Usual. Just like us. HUMAN. BEINGS.

If that thought disturbs you - I am quite sorry, but this is how world works. We bear responsibility for our actions, and it is merely a repeat of past mistake to assume that people in past been different from us when been murdering, raping, stealing, burning, torturing, tearing their kin apart in the name of whatever excuse they have got or came up with. And if we will continue excusing ourselves with delusional sentences as "they ceised being human when.." - we will repeat these mistakes. More of us will suffer, more of us will die.

 

Thank you for the detailed post, but I disagree with you. It was tolerance and silent acceptance of fascism that led the what has happened after 1933. There is good saying, and better it is difficult to say, that you know for sure:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
And of course, in the efforts to be tolerant and politically correct EU swallowed huge amount of refugees most of whom can not assimilate and cause permanent troubles.
As for serving in SS units, of course, there is not much to discuss as the verdict of the Nuremberg tribunal with respect to Nazis in general, and SS units in particular is not arguable: all of them were recognized as criminals. Taking that maybe these criminals were not criminals, but good people does not change the verdict and does not change the attitute of the majority of the people to these monsters. Punkt.

 

It sounds like it was a terrible thing. I fail to see the point of some random state recognizing it or whatever though. Who cares what Washington State thinks? It won't bring those people back, and it won't prevent the ongoing villainy of Russia.

 

Oh All the Genocides and
"Hey, we got holocausted too".
Who are we forgetting?
The American and Canadian Indians and Inuit.
I bet there are lots in Africa beyond counting.
The Cathars, one of my favorite
Australia, New Zealand and Polynesian island peoples.
Any other suggestions.

Moi

r > g

Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.​

 

It was. It raises the awareness at least of past indiscretions.

 

I'm sure it's taught in history books, in the relevant region. I mean, people are obviously aware of it, else this vote would not have happened. /shrug

I'll never understand people's obsession with "awareness". It's a meaningless term, in this regard.