Ok... Let's get one obvious fact straight: The Republican Party controls everything

I'm sorry, what was their counter proposal again?

Trump gave you his, what was your response?

Trump was able to make one without meeting so why can't you guys?

Face it, you have no desire to negotiate.

 

Try not to be snarky, will you?

 

51 votes technically gives you control of the senate but not legislatively.

You need 60 for that.

Basic civics class.

 

Exactly! When you are out of power, you want to "unify". You have nothing, so you want to get whatever you can. But you need the party in power to be open. In what you mention, the great advantage that Republicans have is that when they're not in power, Democrats are.

Republicans are now in power. They have no interest in unifying. I agree with everything you wrote. The only possible conclusion is that the ideal scenario is Republicans out of power and Democrats in power.

 

There are always opposing factions even within a one party government. To think otherwise is a very naive understanding of politics.

 

Trump probably has always been a dick, but being a dick fit right into hosting a reality TV show. It doesn't work as president. Trump has never tried adding to his base of support. He got elected winning the independent vote 46-42 over Hillary. At the end of January 2017 independents viewed Trump favorably 44% to 41% who viewed him unfavorably. Just about the same numbers who voted for and against him in November of 2016. Question 125

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/pyonz5d0lq/econTabReport.pdf

today independents who view Trump favorably is at 38%, those who view him unfavorably has risen to 51%. Question 54A.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/sc59yl78f2/econTabReport.pdf

Being a dick may work with Republicans, his supporters lap that up. But it isn't working with independents as those who view him favorably dropped 6 points and those who view him unfavorably has risen 10 points. I think both Trump and the GOP are about to find out that ignoring independents and being a dick is going to cost them dearly come November.

 

Perhaps it not so much the party, but the leader himself. A good leader recognizes the situation and governs accordingly. Look at Bill Clinton, he came in with a Democratic congress and guns blaring away very liberally. He lost congress in the 1994 election, but he adjusted his strategy, his game plan and ended up being very successful. Eisenhower and Reagan knew what they wanted to accomplish and what was important to them. They also knew they had to work with the Democrats to accomplish that. G.W. Bush had more problems in his first six years with Republicans than Democrats. In fact Jimmy Carter had a whole bunch of problems with his Democratic congress.

So I think it all depends on who is president, the leader. Trump isn't a very good leader, more of a blow heart.

 

Trump gave you his, what was your response?
[/QUOTE]
Trump gave me what?

Trump gave Democrats an ultimatum: fund the idiotic wall, or he'd shut down the government. To give him what he wanted or he would separate children from their family. Stop future immigrants from coming in or he will start deporting DACA recipients.

Democrats obviously said NO!

Ever hear of "The Dream Act"? Of course Democrats can make up a proposal without negotiations. But, other than playing politics with the life of actual human beings, what good would that do?

Democrats have been making proposals in the Senate ever since Trump took power. They have even thrown away millions (supposedly for the stupid wall) in order to make small gains. Like Trump not deporting DACA recipients. But in order to make any sort of progress, we would need a real leader in the Presidency. Which Trump is not!

 

Trump gave me what?

Trump gave Democrats an ultimatum: fund the idiotic wall, or he'd shut down the government. To give him what he wanted or he would separate children from their family. Stop future immigrants from coming in or he will start deporting DACA recipients.

Democrats obviously said NO!


Ever hear of "The Dream Act"? Of course Democrats can make up a proposal without negotiations. But, other than playing politics with the life of actual human beings, what good would that do?

Democrats have been making proposals in the Senate ever since Trump took power. They have even thrown away millions (supposedly for the stupid wall) in order to make small gains. Like Trump not deporting DACA recipients. But in order to make any sort of progress, we would need a real leader in the Presidency. Which Trump is not![/QUOTE]

Trump offered all dreamers citizenship for his wall.

Basically a fresh start.

Democrats want illegals still flowing in though, they don't want it to stop, that's what they showed us.

 

It most definitely is the leader. But the leaders that still exist in the GOP are so far from the mainstream, that most Republicans don't even recognize them as Republicans. They call them RINOs. And there is no indication that this is going to change within the GOP any time soon. So, for now, the healthiest thing for the country is to keep Republicans away from power. And hope that they will reconvene as the party they once were.

 

Talking about "naive"... your post. If the Republican Party can't govern, they can't govern. But Republicans blame these internal disagreements on everybody except themselves. They blame Democrats for their factions.

Bottom line, if these "disagreements" that you mention don't allow them to govern. Then they need to step down. Or the people who love their country more than their party need to vote them out, and allow them to reconvene around... something. But not put them in government, where you know they will accomplish nothing.

 

The wall isn't a fresh start. It's a dirty end! Billions of dollars being thrown into the gutters that serve no purpose other than thumb our noses at our neighbors, and then lowering our head in shame when we realize the "wall" isn't accomplishing anything.

WTF! How is it Democrats want illegals when they're fighting hard to make dreamers legal?

You make no sense!

 

So you want to end illegal immigration?

Tell us your plan for that?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

I don't think you can stop illegal immigration altogether. But you can control it a bit more. Obama had very good ideas. Most of which Trump undid.

I have posted it on this forum many times. First thing to do is stop wasting resources on useless things like ICE (as it is today) and on harassing dreamers. Create a path for legitimate refugees. Provide incentives for immigrants coming in legally (which are easier to vet) Once that's in place, we will have more resources to deal with those who overstay their visas, or enter illegally. And to deal with those who have committed violent crimes. Give incentive illegal immigrants to come forward, register and pay taxes. Grant them a one year work visa under the condition that they pay a fine, pay taxes, keep a clean criminal record, and keep a job. Require them to renew every year. If they can keep this up for 10 years, they deserve a path to permanent resident status and citizenship. Some will register.... some won't. But once we have a good number of them registered, we can deal with those who don't more easily.

 

Your main point seems to be that since the GOP won, they're responsible. Yes, they are. They're responsible for Mueller, for the FBI, and all of the incompetence that goes along with that.

Where you mess up is in thinking that responsibility hasn't been taken. I don't see how you think that hasn't been done? Responsibility is assumed when taking the job. Every republican everywhere in the federal government is responsible for what they do with the power given to them. Trump swore on a golden bible to uphold the constitution. He's not been perfect, but no matter what, he's responsible for what he does as President.

You mention the deep state, and yes, that is the responsibility of the republicans to get rid of. It should also be the responsibility of democrats because they too have taken oaths to protect and defend the constitution, as well.

btw: who is blaming democrats, and for what? You say it's absurd to blame democrats, but don't state what they are being blamed for. They certainly are responsible for what they do as politicians, but what have they done?

I'm just not seeing how you think republicans haven't taken responsibility.

 

How is any of that going to deter people from coming here illegally?

The only thing I see there is you not punishing illegals and rewarding them.

You do realize that we want to STOP illegal immigration, not encourage it don't you?

This is what you are saying, "hey come on in but just make sure you register and pay taxes and you can stay".

What kind of bullshit is that?

 

There was an article written back after Trump won the nomination, Conservatives Are The New RINOs.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/14/conservatives-are-the-new-rinos/

With Trump in charge, traditional conservatism is out the window. Traditional conservatives are the New Rino's. Actually, any Republican regardless of their ideology be it pure conservatism or less so or even on the fringes of Conservatism, if they don't support Trump, they are a RINO.

 

Funny how the people that control everything complain about how not in control they are. Almost like they are crying out in pain as they strike, or something.

 

Funny how we don't know what "the people" are complaining about because no actual examples are given anywhere in this thread.

<Rule 3>

 

I'd love to hear an argument for a middle ground, but have yet to see one. From what I see, you have big government people on the left and small government people on the right. Where is the middle position on that?

Seems to me that the middle position is some government, but that would require defining when it is needed, and when it is not.

Haven't seen that yet, but certainly interested.

 

The reason we have a constitution is because it was intended to limit the size of the federal government. Back in the day before there was such a thing, there was a very active debate on why we it was necessary, as well as the reasons why we should fear it. The federalist papers are filled with those arguments.

You ask how can both sides be appeased, and the answer is in state governments. If Californians want their government to be so big that it can countenance nothing else, then that's what they want, and so long as I am not affected by their government, then great!

So why this continual push to get the federal government involved in this? There is already a constitution with a tenth amendment that is there to let california do exactly what it wants, and the rest of us can sit back and kinda make sure that their particular form of government doesn't infect the rest of the union?

In other words, we only have to go back to when the country was great to make it great again. This is something that could have been debated, but sadly, all I see is the left refusing to do anything other than conflate the federal government with "government", and refusing to see how they can have their utopia right now if they wanted, but only at a state level.

Trump should have so little power that nobody suffers from TDS. Is that too much to ask? Limited small constitutionally limited government and then let local governments decide for themselves what they want.

 

Have you listened to Trump?

"Not been perfect" is an understatement, IMO. He has trampled the Constitution.

Basically for everything. Just listen to Trump. Read right-wingers on this forum. Even just on this thread....

 

Why come in illegally when you have the option to apply to come in legally? For example.... Added bonus: if your application is rejected. we have already vetted you.

Fines are not punishment? What would you propose? 39 lashes?

Of course!

You have a problem with them paying taxes?

The kind of bullshit that solves the problem