Trump's $867 Billion Farm Bill....Is Socialism....

It's better not to convey such a high level of desperation when attempting to refute. Better to think things through that post such an emotional response.

President Clinton was warned when he pushed for China's inclusion in the WTO that it would lead to serious problems. That warning went unheeded, and China was approved.

Since then, China has caused significant harm to the US economy via their well documented activities.

Why do you appear to be condoning that?

 

So where is your computer made?

 

Why so? I simply asked for you to present the facts you are claiming. I said I would be happy to learn something new.

I've provided links to the information I'm basing my statements on. You can't do the same?

Given your response here, it seems the question of who is a "waste of time" has been established.

 

It's assembled in the US, but I have no doubt there are components inside that come from Asia.

How long do you think China should be allowed to harm the US? Another 5 years? 10 years? Forever?

 

I don't and these programs have been going on for many many many decades. This country has been sick all this time with a cancer.....creeping socialism. Just like cancer, we need to stop feeding it first, locate it second, then cut it out. An entitlement mentality has been created among our populous and an immediate withdraw will cause convulsions. We see that with addicts. A new mentality needs to be induced. Do you know anyone other than Trump who has gained any political power in recent years that has addressed Socialism and the need to stop feeding it? It is the beginning of an effort.

 

Soybean farmers sold all the soybeans they could grow to the Chinese until Trump decided to "fix" things..

He cut China off and promised to pay US soybean farmers for their losses.. Can you explain that or justify that?

 

I’m saying if you develop a technology (spending money and time resources) that benefits farmers and consumers then you are entitled to profit from that. Nobody is forcing me to plant hybrids or GMOs I do it because it’s more profitable (and more environmentally sound) than the alternative. Nobody is takeing advantage of farmers of any size. The farmer is choosing what to buy on the open market. He can buy open pollinated seed corn or open source soybean genetics and keep all the seed he wants. It’s a choice.

 

Wanna bet I know more about the farm economy than you? The trade thing with soybeans will be worth it many times over.

 

Won't hear any argument for me. Soybean farmers receive tens of millions in subsidies every single year which is why I laugh when anyone talks about the poor soy farmers. We literally throw away 7 million gallons of milk just because dairy farmers overproduce because they are heavily subsidized and there is no reason to control waste. Don't get me started on the whole ethanol corn thing. ****ing morons who started that literally picked the worst crop to get ethanol from.

 

Margot.....I am not a real wise man in foreign affairs, but I did stay in a Holiday Express last night. It is my belief that President Trump is merely augmenting farmers financially until he can get one sided deals put in place by his predecessors turned around so that Americans are finally playing on a level playing field with competitors. It has been easy in the past for politicians to give away the farm in order to look like "great peace makers". It probably started with Richard Nixon. As I have said before, I am not a go along to get along type guy. Deals don't have to be one sided. We don't have to "give it away" to appease and build up other nations.
I find it interesting that in the founding of our Nation, the Founders were opposed to giving favored nation status to anyone. We were to treat all nations equally, fair and honest and not be beholden to anyone. Recognize the sovereignty of other nations but at the same time demanding they recognize ours. That way we do not get entangled in "lawyer speak".

 

Who is competing with our soybean farmers? They have a product and China wants their product.

Why turn our farmers into welfare recipients for the sake of Trump's ego? He hurt them in August and now claims he's their hero. Just like he claimed he asked the Saudis to pump more oil.. He didn't.. He lied about that too.

I appreciate your thoughtful.. and civil post.

 

is that why Trump had to give almost a Trillion to the farmers... as they were doing fine?

 

No. Socialism would be the government taking all the food and letting you starve.

 

The US has paid farmers NOT to plant for decades.. Go to Federal Farm Subsidies and look at who gets that money by state and county. Most recipients are Republican landowners of huge acreage that haven't planted any thing in years. Michelle Bachmann's family is one..

This soybean thing isn't that. Soybean farmers had a strong market and a good customer in the Chinese.

 

Uh huh.


China buys reported US$300 million of American soybeans in second round of post-trade war truce deals

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-...ported-us300-million-us-soybeans-second-round

TRADE UPDATE: China Reportedly Buying More U.S. Soybeans

https://www.agweb.com/article/trade-update-china-reportedly-buying-more-us-soybeans/

 

Yes. It's called short term pain for long term gains.

It's what intelligent people do. It's the weak people who avoid painful decisions and can't see past tomorrow in their "planning".

 

so why did Trump need to give them almost 1 Trillion dollars in a farm bill if what Trump was doing was not hurting farmers?

 

Trump ADDED 12 billion to the existing Federal Farm Subsidies. Go to the website and take a look. As far as I can understand it.. paying farmers NOT to plant corn keeps the price of corn up.. Call it price support. However, it may be antiquated in a world that needs lots of corn. The problem to overcome would be the fat and happy republican landowners who are picking up $30,000 a year NOT to plant.

In SC we grow incredible tomatoes. When the crop was abundant and prices went below return on investment, they plowed them under. I am not smart enough to solve that problem.. however, I did wonder why the farmers didn't co-op a cannery …

 

The new freedom to plant whatever crop you wanted combined with market forces back in the late ‘90’s could have revolutionized and revitalized the farm economy. Instead corn ethanol took us back down the road to subsidized over production of commodity grains.

It’s the same old story with crops, Amtrak, etc etc.

 

No because the Govt doesn't own the means of production. Farmers own their farms, crops, cattle, etc.

 

I believe it is all about temporary leveraging to get them to stop stealing technology and to get fair access to other markets. Free trade is great but there must be "fair trade".....something we haven't had.
Margot I grew up in Indiana. Left there in 72. I have relatives that farm there. I remember going rabbit hunting in huge fields that were left fallow for years. I would ask why weren't these fields planted? They were called "land banks". The government paid farmers not to plant. That was policy back in the 70's. So that is how government manipulated markets back in the seventies.

 

You know he pulled out of TPP and that benefits the Australians who are thrilled. You have more confidence in his intelligence than I do.. I think he's dumber than dirt.

 

No it isn’t that simple. When planting decisions were being made for the 2018 crop the spread between soybean and corn futures prices favored the planting of soybeans. Most understood this, planted more beans than usual, hedged or forward contracted them, and profited. They were not surprised when the corn/soybean spread narrowed to more normal/historical levels based on supply/demand and input costs.

Yes, the trade war had a small effect on the price of soybeans but it is minor. Commodity grains are cheap because of oversupply. We raise record size crops almost every year. The only hope for prices is big production problems somewhere in the world. We will not consume our way out of low prices no matter what China does.

 

And yet, he passed his tax cuts, redid NAFTA into USMCA, has gotten Kim to the negotiation table, killed the ObamaCare mandate, we have the lowest unemployment in US history, wages are increasing, etc... Trump has gotten things done that other presidents promised, and couldn't do.

I'm not a a fan of Trump personally, but i'm not a partisan fool, who refuses to acknowledge the reality of what he has been accomplishing.