Half of Americans say Trump is victim of a 'witch hunt' as trust in Mueller erodes

Not really and does not put him above criticism for his political acts.

He is not above criticism, what don't you understand and even if one disagrees with Trump's statement's about him as I have been when warranted it does not justify attacks on Trump's family. Perhaps in your country you attack the children.

Ahhh we don't really what foreigners think about him, you don't have a say in the matter.

 

By rule and law nothing is to be brought to the FISA court that hasn't been verified and signed off as such by the highest levels of the FBI and DOJ.

 

Speaking of bogus theories.......... Man! Oh, man!

 

Were you outraged by AOC last week calling a dead president a racist? Hypocrite much?

 

When this is all said and done. And if Mueller brings no charges against Trump for conspiring with Russia to influence the election. Will you still believe it to be true?

 

As long as the reason for not being charged is because a sitting president can't be indicted per DOJ "policy", I would accept that adjudication.

OTOH, I am absolutely confident that once no longer in office he will be charged in various state courts for his laundry list of financial crimes including fraud and money laundering.

He's a crook, a liar and a cheat. Of that there is ample evidence. His pathetic demagogic attacks on a dead guy demonstrates his amorality.

 

He's not above criticism. He is above having the president and commander in chief crap on his grave and his legacy. I guess the whole concept of respect for his massive contributions to the nation is a cheap emotion unworthy of the true trumpian partisan. Its the dear leader, not the nation and its values that are important with some.

And I see that one again, when you are at a complete loss you crank up the snow machine in all its churlish fallaciousness.

Funny how it seems I have a much higher regard for a man's lifetime commitment to service to his country including exhibiting the highest form of bravery while undergoing 5 years of torture in that service. A true commander in chief would HONOR such service without regard to politics. That's what upholding the values and symbols of the nation are all about.

It sure as hell aint about petty personal bullshit butt hurt of a man who in comparison lacks on every level of the measurements of a leader of men.

 

So, anyone got any real reason to lose trust in Mueller yet? Or are we still just going by Trump's and Hannity's blatantly obvious lies and empty accusations?

 

So unless a piece of evidence is "verified" it can't be used.

Which would also mean that those rats coming forward and making claims about third parties' crimes cannot be used because until its investigated, it can't be verified. Unless verification is merely, yes that is what the guy said.

Brilliant legal logic you got there.

 

Why am I not surprised you view facts backed up by evidence as bogus theories? Oh right...

 

Nope. Do you always throw out such stupid false equivalency strawman whataboutery?

 

This is what kills me, what a joke. If Trump pays an American lawyer to go meet and do his dirty business, knowing it's with Russians would you have an issue. Seems you do when he's doing a NDA, what's the difference. How about if the Trump campaign went to discuss Oppo at the Ukraine Embassy, which is considered foreign soil? You guys can split hairs all you want thank god most see it as a hypocritical joke. Please everyone including the FBI says the dossier is BS stop lying.

 

Oh man you're throwing softballs today. Using your "brilliant logic", the Trump team can hire an American lawyer and pay 12million for a fake Russian dossier made by Russian intelligence, then use that to get a wire tap then listen into the dems nominee's campaign. Hey sounds great and good to know you won't have an issue and you see it as perfectly legal. Now that's some logic.

 

I have not lost trust in Mueller....he is just doing the job he was tasked to do and he seems to be doing it fairly impartial. However, I have lost trust in the purpose of the investigation a long time ago. Nobody has been indicted for anything related to Trump or really even any collusion. The report that was used to justify the investigation is looking to be more of hack job than it is a legitimate intelligence report. And it has dragged out much longer than I would have expected any investigation would have been needed. It is starting to look more and more that some people want it to drag out as close as possible to the elections. If so, that makes it more political.

 

Sure they have, though those people are most in Mother Russia. Got to remember that Mueller is investigating Russian interference, among other things. His US indictments have been related to that investigation, which has obviously turned up other crimes in the process, and that is where prosecutors have been beginning. That doesn't mean they're done with their primary investigation or that there won't be more indictments around the issue of collusion or Russian interference specifically. It's all quite within expectations, really. Do not let the Obstructor in Chief and his Foxy and Russian friends muddy the waters and confuse you on the issue.

 

Of course they do. They have heard publicly ONLY one side of the story. Trump has been screaming "WITCH HUNT" for almost 3 years now, and Mueller has been very silent.

Muller has over 30 indictments, and something like 8 convictions, and that doesn't resonate to the American people as related to Trump directly. And with Mueller being very cautious, and plugging the leaks in his office, the American people have seen/heard only Trumps side.

I don't know if Trump is guilty, I'll wait for Mueller to tell us what he has. But I will say one thing, when/if Mueller releases his findings I think their will be some pretty damning things in there about Trump, even if it is not collusion..

 

That's one helluva mental mirror ya got there. Dunning Kruger rules!

 

You need to bone up on the rules of evidence with the FISA court, among other things.

 

Close, but not close enough. I view theories backed up by bogus evidence and made up stuff as bogus. You can paint the word "facts" all over bogus evidence. But it is like putting lipstick on a pig -- when you're done it is still a pig.

 

One minor difference. The former was illegal; the latter, even if it were true, was not.

 

I am not confused on the issue and seldom listen to the "Obstructor in Chief and his Foxy and Russian friends".

I do not view the indictments of hackers as Russian interference in the election. I view it as your basic cyber crime. While the hacking was associated with the election, and the releasing of the "dirt" may have possibly influenced some voters in the election, it wasn't the release that influenced things....it was the dirt itself. "Interference" and "influence" are 2 different things. In this case, if Russians physically changed the results (i.e. changed votes, stuff ballots, etc) that would be interference. Nothing was found in this regards.

I also do not see the spamming of "fake news" and other derogatory social media junk as even "influencing the elections" per se. It that was the case, then the DNC, the RNC, and all of the Super PACs are guilty of the same thing. In the internet age we have found ourselves, the 'fake news" will be common for all of our elections from heron out and will be perpetrated by many counties and special interests.

I also do not see "process crimes" as anything significant. There have been process crimes in almost every investigation of this nature, but they are not necessarily related to the things that were part of the core investigation....or prove that the investigation has merit or not. All they are is that somebody lied to the FBI about something. None of the process crimes in this case prove that the Russians interfered with the results of the elections or that Trump colluded with a foreign country to influence/change the election.

So far, we have heard nothing that indicates that any collusion with a foreign government to influence/change the elections took place or that Trump was involved...either directly or indirectly. Maybe there will be something come out later....and if so, I will certain pay attention to it. However, with the way Washington operates, if there was something significant I would be surprised that it already has not been leaked to the media....especially this late in the investigation.

 

None of the indictments or guilty pleas so far have been within a million miles of Trump campaign colluding with the Russian government. Then, it is illegal for Mueller to be investigating any other matter -- though that has not stopped him from doing so.

 

The people have only heard the Trump side???? Where have you been? 90% of the national media puts out the other side 24/7.

I agree there will be a truck load of bad Trump stuff in Mueller's report. It will sound bad through insinuation, innuendo, and speculation. No prosecutor worth his salt is going to spend 2 years and tens of millions of dollars of the public's money and come back with nothing.

 

Boy am I glad you at least have it figured out that its all about Trump's dirty business.

The FBI has not said the dossier is BS. It is you that are lying but I get its all you have.

In fact, while a number of key elements of the dossier have been confirmed, the bulk of it has not been confirmed and none of it has been categorically proven false, with the exception of the Cohen in Belgrade meeting apparently.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective

 

Why wasn't he charged in those state courts before? And the grand jury can vote the indictment but it cannot be enforced while he is in office, so when the grand jury does not present a bill.....................