Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

Because the OT commands were directed at the OT theocracy of Israel, which doesn't exist. See Galatians. 'New Testament' really means New Covenant.

 

The Bible clearly states to kill witches.

Islamic literature says that Uthman's committee wrote the Koran. The Mohammed character just recited it.

All of the biblical stories illustrate one or more of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:11-28. The miracles are based on Exodus 34:10.

The entire Bible is an ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale. It was not written for the salvation of Gentiles. Even most Jews don't believe in it. It is merely a method to control superstitious twits who think that if they follow certain rules they will live forever. Just about all religions promise the same thing. It is a mind control device.

The only food Christians are specifically told not to eat is food that was offered to idols. The demons are running wild in their world.

 

Spreaking of Galatians, have you ever read Galatians 2:15 (CEV) = "15 We are Jews by birth and are not sinners like Gentiles."

 

What was your main argument to make the case that they are "the same tradition"?

The differences are in fact vast, but it would be good if you could lay out the context and basis for your case a little more first.

 

All major religions share some common elements.

They all have extensive ritual cleansing
They all have rules about food preparation.
they all have rituals for entering and leaving holy sites.
They all make extensive use of numerology.

They all have these metamagical themas.

And interestingly, sufferers of OCD display the same elements in their own compulsive obsessive behaviors.

Perhaps the most famous example of OCD sufferers making major contributions to religious dogma, is Martin Luther. A fascinating story about a guy with some serious personal issues, who had a major impact on his religion, its interpretation of scriptures and the rituals involved in worship.

 

Again, one would have to undersand when the various wars occurred.

And, your comment about Joshua just proves that issues such as this change over time and are not specific to a religion or racial or ethnic heritage.

 

The three Abrahamic religious believe in the same god.

And again, during periods of war there is an ample amount of hate speech.

Even WE start declaring thatothers are evil and unworthy of life - whether they are civilians or not!

 

Who was that command directed at?

 

The command was directed to the people all of the other biblical commands were directed to. Didn't the Jesus character say to go sacrifice some birds and sheep?

Mark 1:40-44(ERV) =
40 A man who had leprosy came to Jesus. The man bowed on his knees and begged him, “You have the power to heal me if you want.”

41 These last words made Jesus angry.[a] But he touched him and said, “I want to heal you. Be healed!”42 Immediately the leprosy disappeared, and the man was healed.

43 Jesus told the man to go, but he gave him a strong warning: 44 “Don’t tell anyone about what I did for you. But go and let the priest look at you.[b] And offer a gift to God because you have been healed. Offer the gift that Moses commanded.[c]This will show everyone that you are healed.”

And what was the sacrifice that the guy was required to offer?

Leviticus 14:1-57 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=leviticus14:1-57&version=CEB;ERV;NKJV;KJV;CEV

Keep those birds and sheep handy. You might need them for some magic spells.

 

"Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?"

they both believe in the same middle eastern God and have the same base religion as they are both part of the Abrahamic religions

 

So what? They both think their God is unique to them and he’s only on their side. Same delusion, same ancient war.

 

I'm not here to defend christianity, I'm not christian and in the end, ironically, I tend to know a little bit more about islamic theology than christian one.

My only point is to say : yes, there is structural differences between islam and christianity.

Considering the inherent value of christianity and islam, yes I have an opinion, yes even as a non christian, I have more sympathy to christianity than islam, but for me it's more complicated than "islam bad, christianity good" or "islam bad, christianity bad" or "islam good, christianity good". It would be a whole thread to itself, and I don't think it's the place to speak of that.

The question is :
Is Islam and christianity the same tradition or paradigm ?

Not are those religion good or bad.

So my answer to the question of "Is Islam and christianity the same tradition or paradigm ?" is basically "No, even if there is common roots in judaism, christianity and islam have deep structural differences that make them two different religion in their intellectual, political and spiritual approach".

From my point of view, the "intruder" would be more christianity. Islam and judaism share much more from my point of view, even on basic things like circumcision or not eating pork. I don't have a ph.d in compared theology of the abrahamic religion however.

Please don't answer me with quotes of the bible showing how christianity is bad, because it's not the point I'm talking of.

 

The issue with Islam is that it suffers from the paradoxical complexity of being both very detailed and also very ambigius (or at least very hard to interpret due to weird structure and strange semi-contradictions).

As far as similarities with Christianity, the only real similarity is that both religions believe that Messiah has already been here, but the previous believe this Messiah was Jesus whereas the latter believe Muhammed was the Messiah. Furthermore, Jesus and Muhammed are vastly different figures and I do not think it would be fair to say the two religions stem from the "same tradition" since both the messages are very different.

 

Islam and Christianity didn't just appear out of thin nothing into this world. Neither did Judaism. In order to be able to understand the relationships between religions, we need to study them in the proper historical context. Only thorough knowledge of all aspects of life in the wider region where a religion was born - including religions, myths, legends, beliefs, and traditions - will allow us to answer the question in the OP..

 

True but how many true believers are brave enough to acquire a thorough knowledge of all aspects of life in the wider region and face up to the myths, legends, beliefs and traditions jubled together in their so called holy books? When you’re deluded enough to think the Bible, Koran or Tora are the Word of God you aren’t going to go fishing around for the truth.

 

I think it would help if Christians remove the OT from their bible... say God changed and is no longer that jealous narcissistic God with a fragile ego of the past... he changed when he lived among us... something like that

 

according to the Sumerian texts which came long before either of those religions, seems like this was the real base religion these were all built upon

 

God changed? Yes, according to the New Testament into a sado-masochist who tortured his own son to redeem sins he knowingly made possible in the first place.

 

but God is all knowing and knew that if he went to earth as Jesus and let people nail him to a cross and kill him, that he would be reborn a better person for it

 

Let’s start with the ‘all-knowing’ part of Christian theology, otherwise known as ‘omniscience’. This tells us the Christian God exists in all eternity and knows everything that will ever happen and everything that has. How then did that God manage to justify granting our species free will when he necessarily knew where it would end? And that’s only the first part of the question. Free will could not even exist unless this God gave up being all-knowing as an almighty being who knew everything that would happen would necessarily have determined in advance those events. Hence, unless that God surrendered his omniscience free will could not have come into being. As is nearly always the case with Christian theology the contradictions are so entangled with the entirety of so called creation as to defy understanding. But hey, there’s still that hoary old excuse ‘God moves in mysterious ways’.
Underlying all this is the presumption, if such a being does exist, we can understand enough of his/her/it's nature to construct a logical theology.
A failed exercise I suggest.

 

Well ... this is not quite true. While the Bible is rather hard on the Jews - it does not call for the death of Jews. Christianity on the other hand has a long history of calling for the death of the Jews.

Your claim of the lack of similarity between the two is also not correct. Both essentially used the same formula - they both used the texts of Judaism as the base and introduced a new Prophet. As for the God of the Islam - it is the God of Abraham - El Shaddai - God of the Mountain - the Most High - Creator God and head of the divine Pantheon. Biblical Scholars now agree that this was El - head of the Sumerian Pantheon.

YHWH was one of El's many sons. according to Ugaritic texts .. and also from passages in the Bible.

Which one was the God of Jesus is a different matter - probably El ... certainly not that YHWH character.

 

Calling for? The Nazis arrived in Eastern Europe with detailed lists of Jewish citizens provided by Rome and it’s agents.
Mark Mason’s ‘The Christian Holocaust: A critical study of organised religion’ ( PUBL’ Markwell Press Hong Kong 1981) delves into the depth and extent of the church’s anti-semitism throughout history.

 

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I don't even want to get into the history of Judaism, but suffice it to say that the God of the Jews was a very different God from all the gods of Arabia and Egypt, since he had no form and commanded that there be no idols of him. The concept of an ineffable god was completely foreign to the rest of humanity at the time. Jesus didn't "introduce a new prophet", he said he was the son of God, and he was a Jew. The god of Islam was just one of many gods being worshipped by the Arabs, only Mohammed decided to link him to the Jewish God and the Jewish Bible in order to make his new religion more appealing to the Jews. It didn't work, and the Jews mocked him for his nonsense, which infuriated Mohammed and made him a murderous psychopath instead of just a regular psychopath. Mohammed deliberately tried to link the Arabs to Abraham, claiming that the Arabs were the descendants of Abraham's other son, Ishmael. But of course the Arabs predated Abraham by a great many years, and Abraham told his son Isaac not to take a wife from among the Arab tribes. Islam is a fiction based on lies based on imagination. Allah is no more the God of the Jews than Zenu of the Scientologists is.

 

[QUOTE="xwsmithx, post: 1070733160, member: 72687”] . . . . . It didn't work, and the Jews mocked him for his nonsense, which infuriated Mohammed and made him a murderous psychopath instead of just a regular psychopath. . . . . . . . .[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure that’s what made him a murderous psychopath but the tradition continues. But then again the God of the Torah ain’t no saint either.

 

This may come as a shock to you but Judaism changed over the millennia. The religion was not strict monotheism until around 500 BC. Prior to that the Israelite's believed in a Divine Pantheon/ a Divine Council. It was not that they worshiped many Gods. They believed in the existence of many Gods but worshiped only one.

In any case - the God of Abraham was not YHWH - This is not disputed among serious scholars - Even the Encyclopedia Brittanica states as much -

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

There is no need to get into the sordid history of Mohammed - The fact of the matter is that Muslims worship the God of Abraham - as opposed to the God of the Israelite's. Sorry but you don't get to choose the God that Muslims choose to worship.