Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

Neither do they.

 

It is an interesting historical fact that for most of the last 2000 years the Islam treated Jews far better than Christianity. They were forever persecuting and expelling them - if not murdering them for any old excuse.

This abuse was not just a part of Catholic Christendom - the founder of Protestantism could not resist either.

Luther's Classic - "On the Jews and their Lies"

In the early part of WW2 it looked as if Hitler was going to win - The Vatican could not resist reverting to one of its favorite age old pastimes - killing Jews.

Catholic Croatia committed mass genocide complete with forced conversions on Orthodox and Jewish Serbs.

Ivan Šarić, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Vrhbosna in Sarajevo, supported the Ustaša, in particular the forcible conversion of Orthodox Serbs to Roman Catholicism. His diocesan newspaper wrote: "There is a limit to love. The movement of liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of human dignity. Omniscient and omnipotent God stands behind this movement.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Ustaše

 

Nonsense, the Muslim holy book is full of Jew hate, the opposite of the Bible where the Savior is Jewish and they are God's chosen people. Muslims treated Jews like they did/do any 'infidel', i.e. not as equals.

And your fellow atheists killed 100 million under Communism, what's your point? Where did Jesus say to do that? You can find fault with any Christian going back to the disciples, it's about accepting God's free offer of salvation, not achieving perfection. You won't find fault in the life of Jesus, unlike the bloody prophet.

 

That the Muslim holy book is full of Jew hate does not change the Historical fact that the Muslims treated the Jews much better than the Christians - up until the last couple of centuries.

Then you try to Justify Christian atrocity by citing Communist atrocity - how pathetic.

 

You'll forgive me if I decline to take the word of a nonexistent source as authoritative. Nor do I take the word of Mohammed, a consummate liar and fraud.

 

I'm not justifying any atrocity, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Their" what?

 

It's a joke, son, a story with a humorous climax.

 

Islam is an Abrahamic faith, stemming as it does from the Bible. They believe in the Bible and hold Jesus as the highest prophet second only to Muhammad. Islam is not the only Abrahamic faith that doesn't see Jesus as part of a trinity.

The fact that the Qur'an can be considered a poem doesn't suggest it is any less (or more) literally true.

While western government divided a line between religion and state, it continues to be the case that Christians work to have their beliefs written into law - in fact many work against that division, striving for a Christian government.

 

Jews fared relatively better in the Ottoman empire because they were not seen as a threat. Except, of course, for Palestine, where Jewish immigration was at times forbidden, and Jews were not allowed to live in certain places (like the Golan Heights).

While Christians - following in the footsteps of Augustine de Hippo - think Judaism is the root of evil, Muslims see Judaism as some kind of birthright and a duty for Jews. A Muslim man can't marry a Christian woman unless she converts to Islam, but Jewish women who marry Muslims don't have to change their faith.

Islam and Judaism are clearly drawing on the same ancient religions, beliefs, and traditions.

 

I would forgive you if that were the case. The fact of the matter is that I gave you a source - Encyclopedia Britannica - so for the intentional falsehood you are not forgiven.

I can give you journal articles if you like That Muhammad is a consummate liar and fraud does not change the fact that the religion he founded worships the God of Abraham - I understand that you may not like the way this God is worshiped by Muslims - I don't care much for Islam either - the God of Abraham is who they worship.

It is preposterous nonsense to ask someone - "which God do you worship" .. and the reply "the God of Abraham" and you say "no you don't" This is laughable silliness.

Extremist Islamist Muslims actually follow that YHWH fellow much better than Christians - or Jews for that matter. Have you ever read the Old Testament ? Good luck with the claim that Christians follow YHWH more closely than Islamist Extremists. That claim is false false false.

 

Of course you were trying to apologize for atrocity - but in any case what hypocrisy are you referring to ?

 

Interesting comments

 

You're sorta right. They're just 1000 years behind.

 

Not really. The Koran has little in common with the New Testament of The Bible. The Koran does share similarities with the Old Testament of The Bible, but the OT is Judaism.

Neither does Islam share similar foundational values with Christianity. Christianity is fundamentally about the unconditional absolution of humanity's sins, while Islam is about pleasing Allah through numerous and very strict conditions.

Another stark difference worth noting as it applies to much of the cultural differences between 'the west' (arising from the heavily Christian influenced rennaisaince as it was) and 'the east' is the concept of 'peace.' Biblically speaking (and throughout the western world) 'peace' is understood to mean a lack of violence. In the ME, as in The Koran, 'peace' is understood to mean a lack of disobedience, acceptibly enforced with/by violence.

 

Quoting a nonexistent source. Nice try, but major fail.

Since the God that Mohammed and the Muslims worship is nothing like the God of the Jews & the Christians, it's not the same God.

If you tell me you're a Christian and then deny the divinity and resurrection of Christ, I'm going to tell you you aren't a Christian. The same goes for the Muslims and their claim to worship the God of Abraham. No, they don't. What you think you are and what you actually are can differ by a considerable amount.

Of course I have, I was a believer for 29 years. Extremist Muslims don't follow Yahweh at all, or else they'd become Jews. If they followed Christ, they'd become Christians. Done and done for that claim.

 

What non existent source ? I gave you the link from the section from the encyclopedia Britannica I cited. The Muslims follow YHWH far better than Christians or Jews - clearly you did not understand what was written in the OT. YHWH is a flip flopping xenophobic genocidal God with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics. I would say the Islamist Extremists follow that very well.

Sorry to burst your bubble but, The God that Abraham worshiped was El - at lease according Biblical Scholarship.

You keep on claiming "there different - there different" but give nothing to back up those claims. Then you claim you were not given sources that you were in fact given - this is disingenuous nonsense. Here is the link again... now go and learn. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

 

I think you absolutly missed my point. I consider all abrahamic religions are erroneous.
I didn't spoke of the divinity of J.Christ. As far as I know, the only which believe in trinity are the christian, and even among christian, there is some which doesn't believe in it such as the Jehovah Witness or the aryan (a mostly extinct part of christianity).

I just says that there is no true equivalent to the hadith/haram system, neither to the shariah, even if I don't deny that some christian try to enforce some christian laws.

I don't believe in god, neither in Jesus. I still have that feeling that you speak to me as if I was a christian.

 

Christians don't worship the god of Abraham, nor the god of Moses.

Let's have a look at each god.

The oldest - El who became YHWH - is the perfect prototype of the enlightened despot. He can be benevolent or harsh, throw tantrums, argue with humans, be persuaded to change his mind. The Judaic god needs his flock more than his flock needs him, seeing how he bribed the Hebrews (freedom from slavery) to make them his "priestly kingdom". The Kabbalah even claims that YHWH needs humans to help him repair the material world (don't ask, it's complicated). Jews' god is a king, one of his titles is "king of kings". What matters most to YHWH is that Jews keep the more than 600 commandments in the Torah. There are no dogmas in Judaism.

The god of Christians is nothing like YHWH. He's unknowable, works in mysterious ways, while YHWH is quite outspoken and his instructions are crystal clear. The Christian god can die and return from the dead, like pagan gods who descended into the world of the dead and came back - Ishtar, Dionysus, Osiris. We know today that the first Christians were mostly gnostics, they thought the demiurge was evil, they couldn't possibly worship YHWH the demiurge. We know that Marcion completely rejected Judaism. The Judaic god was probably merged somehow with the original Christian god when heretic Jewish sects converted to Christianity.

I don't know much about Islam. Its five pillars, and the Sharia, seem to indicate that the most important thing in Islam is total submission to god (and to his middlemen on Earth, be they secular or religious rulers). There's no arguing with god, there's no self sacrifice for the sake of humanity. Allah is neither YHWH, nor Jesus. He might have been El, or one of his sons, originally, but he didn't become YHWH.

Christianity and Islam were influenced by Judaism, but those three religions worship different gods.

 

Islam is closer to Judaism than to Christianity.

Christianity is pacifist, Islam and Judaism are defensive. Muslims and Jews see God as perfect and the highest being. They are strictly monotheistic. Christians instead declared a man (Jesus) as God.

Mormonism has derived from Christianity, but I think Mormons don't believe in the Christian trinity myth.

 

The Encyclopedia Britannica is not a "source", it was quoting a source, that being what it called "P", which is not extant, i.e., it doesn't exist. Therefore I need waste no time in giving it any credence whatsoever.

Here's a good explication of why the Allah of Mohammed was in fact an ancient moon deity of the Arabs, already well-known in antiquity: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Personally, I'm more of the opinion that Allah is another name for Ba'al, the god of the Moabites: https://hope-of-israel.org/baaloftheOT.html

And I already told you they are different not because they are different beings but because they are given different qualities... the Christian God is a God of love and forgiveness. The Muslim Allah is a god of hate and cruelty and death. That alone is enough to distinguish them.

 

Allah is the Arabic name for God. Arabic Christian Bibles also call him Allah.

 

Allah is the generic Arabic word for "god" just as we use capital God for the Hebrew God and lower case god for the gods of everyone else. That no more makes the Mohammedan Allah the Hebrew God any more than it makes Zeus the Hebrew God.

 

There is one Abrahamic god, called God, Allah, or Yahweh. This has nothing to do with Greek polytheism.

 

There is one Abrahamic God, but the Mohammedan Allah is not him.