Obviously growing?? Then obviously you have statistics proving there exists an ever increasing wave of crime being committed by body armor wearing criminals. I repeat my previous assertion I have more chance or sharing a nice chilled Chablis over a candlelit dinner with Cameron Diaz than you have of ever encountering an armor wearing felon. Prove me wrong.
What do odds have to do with anything? We have the right to defend ourselves against such criminals no matter what the odds are.
Not at all that's the lowest number out there, the number of self defense uses in the U.S. ranges from 50,000 to 200,000 annually, with the first number being reported and the latter being an estimate of all uses reported and not reported. And maybe you thing defending oneself is something to laugh about the reality is there is nothing funny about it, defending oneself against an attack with a firearm is serious business and not to be taken lightly. I know this from having to do it myself to prevent an armed robbery.
We're not obsessed with being attacked, it's a rare event, defending yourself is a pile of bollox. When a shop gets held up, allegedly with a firearm (normally just a BB gun to intimidate) cashier soften passes some cash over, pushes the panic button and the police sort it. No here is, no flying bullets and no John Wayne swaggering down the high street on his horse. Needing guns to defend yourself is a fallacy and a load of bollox. Pick one or two incidents where my gun did this this and my gun did that, it's a pile of *****.
If such is actually the case, then ultimately what is serving as the motivating factor to cooperate with the attempted robbery? Why not simply call their bluff? Why does the cashier not simply come out from behind the register and proceed to beat the attempted robber to a bloody pulp where they stand?
50,000 uses is not such, but your less than knowledgeable reply is. Yet if you bothered to do a tad bit of research say on YouTube you would find hundreds if not thousands of incidents where shopkeepers prevented a robbery by utilizing a firearm. Only in the fantasy world of the GCA's, however most people do not live with their heads buried in the sand and understand in the U.S. there are nearly 900 robberies per day and 3400 violent crimes committed each day, as such your claim is not only a fallacy it's pure BS.
Or do like they do in Miami, reach under the counter and pull a hook that discharges a shotgun into the robbers midsection stopping the crime instantly.
Bull, I prevented myself from being stabbed by having a firearm on hand, as such your opinion is totally incorrect and baseless.
The White House unveiled a plan in January that included orders to the CDC to “conduct research on the causes and prevention of gun violence.” According to the White House report, “Research on gun violence is not advocacy; it is critical public health research that gives all Americans information they need.” The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.” Last Tuesday. Armed 73-Year-Old Homeowner Takes Down Home Invader "He picked the wrong house," Daniel McGown told WEWS. Akron, OH – A 73-year-old homeowner turned the tables on a home invader on Tuesday morning, when he confronted the burglar and held him at gunpoint until police arrived at the scene. The incident occurred in the 600-block of Crosby Street just after 5:15 a.m., WEWS reported. In just a single month. July 3, Summerville, South Carolina. Concerned neighbors went to check out loud noises that they thought might be someone breaking into the local church, only to discover a very drunk trespasser roaming through a nearby backyard. The drunk trespasser began attacking one of the neighbors, who then shot the drunk man in self-defense after his warning shot went unheeded. Law enforcement officers determined the neighbor acted justifiably, and the drunk man is facing charges related to the incident. July 5, Danville, Kentucky. A homeowner held a would-be thief at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived, after investigating why his gate intercom rang at 4 a.m. The homeowner looked outside and saw that his vehicles had been moved, then found the cars parked away from the house, with the thief still inside one of them. July 10, Summerfield, Florida. A disabled 61-year-old homeowner kept his AR-15 loaded by his bedside after a suspicious interaction earlier in the day with a man who was looking through the sliding glass door on his back porch. When the homeowner awoke to loud noises that night, he grabbed his rifle just in time to defend himself from four armed men who had broken into his home. He killed two of the armed intruders and sent the other two fleeing, until they were tracked down by a police K9 unit. Despite being outnumbered and wounded himself, the homeowner survived. July 11, Tampa, Florida. A pastor, joined by a deacon, held an intruder at gunpoint for nearly 10 minutes after responding to the church’s alarm system and discovering a man who had used a brick to break in. The intruder was in the process of stealing electronics from the place of worship. July 15, Phoenix. A retired military law enforcement officer acted quickly to defend himself and his family against a home invasion, drawing his handgun from his bedside table and chasing the intruder out of the house. After running, the suspect broke into another home and attempted to sexually assault a woman before being arrested by police, who the first homeowner had called. July 16, San Diego. A man armed with a knife broke into a home and began stabbing the 54-year-old homeowner until the homeowner’s son was able to intervene, shooting and killing the attacker with his father’s gun. The home invasion caused some residents to question the logic of a proposed local ordinance that would require gun owners to keep their firearms locked in a safe or left inoperable when not on their person. July 17, Oneida, Tennessee. A man rushed to his mother’s home after receiving a phone call from the mother’s caretaker about hearing suspicious talking from other parts of the house. He discovered a woman in the process of burglarizing the home who was armed with a pocket knife, and held her at gunpoint until police arrived. July 24, Rochester, New Hampshire. A father, whose two young children were in the car with him, spotted a would-be burglar while pulling up in the driveway of his home. The father confronted the man and held him at gunpoint while waiting for law enforcement. He told reporters that while he wished he had not needed to draw his gun in the presence of his children, he hopes it taught them a valuable lesson. “I don’t carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to neutralize threatening situations,” he said. July 27, High Point, North Carolina. A woman fatally shot an ax-wielding man who broke into her property and charged at her. The man had assaulted the same woman earlier that night but was able to elude police. July 29, Prospect, Kentucky. A homeowner brandished his handgun to chase away a man attempting to break into his home. The incident was captured by a security camera, and the homeowner believes that the presence of the firearm allowed him to scare off the suspect without putting himself in danger. July 31, Nashville. An Uber driver defended himself and his passenger by shooting a man who opened fire on the driver’s vehicle. The man—who had a long history of violent crimes, including armed robbery—said he had felt “disrespected” by the Uber driver’s passenger and followed the car to exact revenge. Neither the passenger nor the Uber driver was harmed, but the perpetrator was later treated at a local hospital for wounds to his chest and arm.
I'm from the UK, we're not crazy over here with guns, we don't mouth froth over them, it's civilised.
If you're gonna get robbed, smack them in the face, push the panic button, run. Call the cops. Stop using pathetic excuses to be crazy with guns so your society run amok and cause massacres. Self defense with a gun is a load of bollox. You only want such a range of guns because you are brainwashed with a 300 year old bit of paper that was suitable with muskets.
Police: Man who shot intruder at Camden home should be protected by Stand Your Ground law. CAMDEN, S.C. (WIS) - Police believe an early morning shooting in Camden during a home invasion was justified. The shooting happened in the 700 block of Maggie Avenue around 4:15 a.m. Friday. A lady was in her home with her boyfriend and several children when her ex-boyfriend tried to break in, police said. The woman called 911, alerting dispatch of the situation and saying she had an order of protection against her ex-boyfriend. A deputy with the Kershaw County Sheriff’s Office arrived within minutes, but the ex-boyfriend had already left the area. But a short time later, the ex-boyfriend went back to the home. When he forced his way in that time, the woman’s current boyfriend shot the man inside the home, police said. The ex-boyfriend ran from the home and was located by a KCSO deputy who called for EMS. Emergency crews rushed the man to the hospital and police say he is expected to make a full recovery. Homeowner shoots suspected intruder during home invasion Three days after a New Hampshire homeowner opened fire on a stranger who had broken into his home, a similar situation unfolded just a few miles away in the same city. In broad daylight Wednesday afternoon, a man held an attempted burglar at gunpoint while his two kids witnessed the entire ordeal. The homeowner said he was pulling into his driveway on May Street, his young children in the car, when he saw a stranger standing on his porch. "I don't know who he is, I don't know his intentions, and I don't know why he's here," said David Cameron. Once Cameron realized that man was trying to break into his home and steal his kids' bikes, he pulled his gun. He carries it all the time, and while he's never before had to use it for protection, he says this is exactly why he has it. "Because you never know who is going to do you harm," Cameron said. "I was at the zoo yesterday with my children. It was a great day, we had fun, and then there was a situation." "It felt wonderful to protect my family," Cameron said. Cameron and his fiancé, Sarah Gosselin, wish this never happened in this first place, but they are hoping it has taught their little one a valuable lesson. "He asked me if I shot him and I said, 'No, buddy, I had no reason to kill him,'" Cameron explained. "I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to neutralize threatening situations." Anderson Co homeowner who shot intruder: 'I didn't want that to happen, but I had no other choice' WILLIAMSTON, SC (FOX Carolina) - Anderson County deputies are investigating after a homeowner said he has to shoot a man to defend his family when the intruder forced his way into his Williamston home. Deputies said they were called to the home on Boiter Road just after 10 p.m. 35-year-old Antwain Moton said he was playing his X-Box when a man he didn't know began pounding on his door. Moton said he ordered the man to leave, but the man made his way inside and was scuffling with Moton, his wife, and his grandmother, while his four-year-old daughter began crying in the next room. “His hands were just coming toward us, like he was going to do some type of harm," Moton said. Moton said when the man made his way fully into the home, he knew he had to act. “He was in the front door and closed the door behind him when I had to shoot him.” Moton said he fired, and the bullet hit the intruder in the chest and sent the stranger falling backward. “As soon as I shot him, I called 911, and tried to keep him responsive while I (spoke to the dispatcher).” By the time deputies arrived, the intruder was dead. And the link below provides a few thousand more reports of Americans defending themselves, which clearly provides overwhelming evidence your claim "defending yourself is a pile of bollox" is totally false. https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/
And your own government is on record having stated stabbings are at a epidemic level in the UK. Britain's 'pervasive horror of knife crime' reaches record for number of stabbing homicides Police leaders, youth workers and victims' families called for action over what Prime Minister Theresa May described as a public health emergency and a "cancer" affecting British society: violence by its youth. The "pervasive horror of knife crime" must end, said Charles, prince of Wales, in his Easter message. "It's getting worse, and I don't believe we've reached the peak," said Caroline Shearer, whose son Jay was fatally stabbed in 2012 at age 17. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ergency-record-stabbing-homicides/3470942002/
Tell that to an elderly person who can barely walk, that type of foolish advice gets people killed. And by the time they arrive the caller will be dead more foolish and dangerous advice. No one is making pathetic excuses, nor is anyone suggesting being crazy with a firearm, all I am advocating is refuse to be a victim and have the tools and the training to accomplish that task and I am not alone in suggesting that. No it isn't, what is a load of bollox is your lack of understanding why self defense is not only proper it is moral and legal. The only brainwashing I see around here is coming from the GCA's.
Not at all. Studies regularly show that there are far more defensive gun uses than even that. I choose to not be a victim. We're not serfs here in America. We're free. We don't have to have our lord agree that we "need" something before we are allowed to have it. When a free person chooses to have a gun, they get a gun, and no one worries about whether they "need" it. I personally do not equate serfdom with civilization. But if they are the same thing, I still choose American freedom over European serfdom. I choose to not be a victim. Guns do not cause massacres. Murderers cause massacres. If you want to be a victim, go ahead. I choose otherwise. If love of freedom is brainwashing, I'll take it.
The fact that GCA's claim guns cause massacres demonstrates how little they understand about firearms. A firearm or it's owner cannot kill anything with it, that is unless the use the tool to beat someone to death with it. What comes out of the barrel of a gun is what does the killing. And what causes that to happen is the human that pulls the trigger, not the gun nor the ammo. If we look at another major killer of innocent people, drunk driving we can form a parallel drunk drivers not the vehicles are the ones who do the killing. Unlike the GCA's, who run on a false narrative, Mothers Against Drunk Driving are reality based, they are not pushing for banning cars, SUV's, vans or pickup trucks or any other type of vehicle, they have addressed the actual problem, that being drunk drivers and because of that reality based logic, have been able to get passed through the various state Legislatures strong laws requiring strong penalties for those who drive while under the influence. Meanwhile the GCA's running on emotion, not facts cannot get anything passed that will actually reduce the criminal use of firearms, though they have in many cases increased criminal use of firearms by their misguided and unconstitutional cause.
This is where it boils down to the individual and personal preference. Yes higher velocity jacket rounds are typically better for penetration, for someone wearing body armor they are better, for the 99.9% of the criminals not wearing body armor then they aren't the best choice. For me personally I'd never carry FMJ in a self defense firearm, especially not in my carry gun. Jacket rounds typically go right through things, mainly people, and the most horrifying scenario I can imagine would be me, God forbid, having to use a firearm in a self defense situation and having the round cause collateral damage. One can never be fully prepared for every situation but there are times where I personally draw the line and say it's meant to be if I find myself in a situation like that. Just like for my home defense I have a plain 12ga with 00 buck and slugs in succession. I figure if 8 rounds of that doesn't stop whoever kicked in my door then I guess I'm just screwed. With my carry gun it's always loaded with hollow point defender rounds. If whoever wishes me harm attacks me with battle armor then I guess I'm just screwed.
Let me put it to you a different way: Why do you feel a police officer needs to own a different type of gun from perdidochas?
Explain to me how that mindset is any different than an anti gun advocate saying ‘if I am attacked, then I am just screwed’. Simply being armed doesn’t bestow magical immunity to harm if you haven’t prepared yourself for a fight. I was fortunate I guess in being trained when young by a fellow that had been himself trained by W.E. Fairbairn in WWII. Two things he advised that became ingrained. You don’t train to survive combat. You train to win. That means you train for and through failure. Meaning to train to overcome any potential failure. You may not anticipate every possible point of failure, but training through failure prepares you not to freeze and capitulate when things don’t go right, but to retain the mental ability to assess and overcome the unforeseen. It’s, part of why when I train people in self defense with guns, I induce certain points of failure like intermittent FTFs, FTEs, etc. and train how to assess, recover, clear the problem and continue. Why in force on force training with simulation we throw curve, like encountering multiple adversaries when one is expected, or the target that doesn’t go down when hit. While I don’t advocate mandatory training as a requirement for owning/carrying a gun, I do recommend getting good training. As for home defense, owning a gun and choice of gun is a step in the right direction, but it should be part of a layered home defense strategy which should include thinking through things like (if you have a family) what each member should do, how to communicate, possible avenues of movement and defense positions, lines of fire, lighting options, and more. In your home, you automatically have a tactical advantage to any invader if you have prepared yourself (even by mental envisioning of what you would do under various scenarios). Encountering someone with body armor with a gun and ammo that won’t penetrate it isn’t a show stopper; body armor doesn’t make someone invincible. Any fighting back has the potential to surprise an attacker who is not expecting a continuing fight and, as has been repeatedly demonstrated more often than not, results in them retreating despite their body armor. If you’ve trained to overcome failure, trained to keep thinking through failure, their are options open for defeating an opponent with body armor. Or, in doing your prep, knowing your lines of fire, where innocents likely to be, having an AR or AK, can be an option for stopping that kind of threat. BTW, knowing what lies in the line of fire beyond your target is one of the cardinal rules of firearm safety and should be an automatic, instinctual bit of evaluation any time you pull a trigger. I once had a friend that was accosted by a large fellow, sensing he was about to be hit, my friend preemptively struck first, landing what should have been a threat stopping blow. The large fellow just smiled. Seemed a bad bit for my friend, but before anyone could move, my friend kicked the large fellow on the inside of his knee, dropping him to the ground, after which my friend kicked the big fellow a few times in the head. My friend fought not to survive, but win. He was trained by the same fellow as I.
Civilised, eh? Tell me that when the likes of you takes a casual stroll down the Falls to have a drink at Felon’s. Would you last a round?
What??? Just to remind you - you're the one making the assertion about the apparently pressing need for civilian personal body armor due to the rising threat posed by armored criminals, not me. Its up to you produce the statistics supporting your case. My position is that the stats don't support your argument. So prove me wrong. In any event a quick search by me found articles reporting why bans on felons owning ballistic armor were needed (like yes) and sighting individual examples of cases where this occurred, but no stats on the issue that indicated this was a significant emerging crime trend. And by significant I would expects figures in the hundreds or thousands given the number of individual crimes committed in the US every year and the size of the US population.
