Syria doesnt want us there. Turkey doesnt want us there. Why should we be there?

Both Turkey and the Kurds can be called US allies, but both have done horrific things to each other. The Kurds engage in acts of terrorism, killing and kidnapping civilians, suicide bombings, and the Turks have used their military to kill hundreds of Kurdish civilians. Neither party has clean hands, we cannot stand between the two groups forever.

 

Yes we have .. as has Saudi Arabia - and much of the arms transfers were done in conjunction with Saudi Arabia.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

 

You mean this?

In 2012-13 the Obama administration helped its Sunni allies Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar provide arms to Syrian and non-Syrian armed groups to force President Bashar al-Assad out of power. And in 2013 the administration began to provide arms to what the CIA judged to be “relatively moderate” anti-Assad groups—meaning they incorporated various degrees of Islamic extremism.

 

Cuz Wolfowitz and his worshipers

 

You're longing for earlier, more simple times. We tried to "walk away" from foreign involvements after WW I. Many historians believe that our isolationism at that time helped create the international environment leading to WW II...and Pearl Harbor. Following WW II, the was a bi-partisan consensus that we wouldn't repeat that mistake. That determination to remain involved and take the lead in the formation of international organizations (the U.N., the IMF, the WTO, the World Bank, NATO, SEATO, etc.) created the post-war global order, Trump is now in the process of destroying.

 

The groups fighting against Assad were radical Islamist extremist Jihadists.

As per the "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" Submitted by Tulsi Gabbard and cosponsored by 13 Bipartisan in congress.

"Under U.S. law it is illegal for any American to provide money or assistance to al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups. If an American citizen gave money, weapons or support to al-Qaeda or ISIS, he or she would be thrown in jail. Yet the U.S. government has been violating this law for years, quietly supporting allies and partners of al-Qaeda, ISIL, Jabhat Fateh al Sham and other terrorist groups with money, weapons, and intelligence support, in their fight to overthrow the Syrian government. The CIA has also been funneling weapons and money through Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and others who provide direct and indirect support to groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda. This support has allowed al-Qaeda and their fellow terrorist organizations to establish strongholds throughout Syria, including in Aleppo.

A recent New York Times article confirmed that ‘rebel groups’ supported by the U.S. ‘have entered into battlefield alliances with the affiliate of al-Qaeda in Syria, formerly known as al Nusra.’ This alliance has rendered the phrase ‘moderate rebels’ meaningless. Reports confirm that ‘every armed anti-Assad organization unit in those provinces [of Idlib and Aleppo] is engaged in a military structure controlled by [al-Qaeda’s] Nusra militants.’

A recent Wall Street Journal article reported that many rebel groups are ‘doubling down on their alliance’ with al Nusra. Some rebel groups are renewing their alliance, while others, like Nour al-Din al-Zinki, a former CIA-backed group and one of the largest factions in Aleppo are joining for the first time. “The Syria Conquest Front—formerly known as the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front—is deeply intermingled with armed opposition groups of all stripes across Syria’s battlefields.”

Giving weapons to any of these Islamist groups - is giving weapons to Al Qaeda/ISIS - and/or supporting the cause of Al Qaeda/ISIS - which it to turn Syria from a secular nation into an Islamic State.

 

Why not? We've stood between the Turks and Greeks for more than 60 years.

 

I am so disappointed in Tulsi.. I thought she was smarter rather than a lemming.

Saudi Arabia considered arming al Nusra early on and changed their minds based on their experienced arming AQ against the Soviets. They know the blowback of unintended consequences.

The Saudis wouldn't arm a group that declared war on them and/or carried out suicide bombings in the kingdom.

Some of these people are horribly stupid... bleating sheep.

 

Post WW1, beside the navy, the USA wasn't in any condition to influence anybody militarilly. Tchekoslovakia had a bigger army than the USA in 1938 and they didn't scare the Germans. The USA was an economic and ressource power, not a military one between the two world war.

The kurds, via the PKK have been killing Turks since the mid 80's. They're Turkey version of Hamas. Turkey showed restraint all during the Syrian civil war and the conter-isis campaign but there was never any question of letting the PKK, now armed to the teeth and better trained, holding any territories to operate from. In any case we never went there for the kurds. We went there because Isis invaded Iraq. If Isis had stayed in Syria we would have gladly stay out and watch them slaughter each others. It only was after the Iraqi armed force fled abandoning their equipment that the USA came to the rescue once again.

 

It is not just Tulsi - the bill had 13 bipartisan cosponsors. Any time something comes up in relation to your beloved Saud - you go running to the playground to stick head deep in the sandbox of denial.

Where do you think the Islamist Extremists in Syria got the tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military hardware required to take on a Nation State - and win .. Santa Clause ?

Your mind turns off as soon as "Saudi Arabia" comes up. Saudi Arabia was supporting radical Salafi Extremists in syria - It matters not what they call themselves "Islamic Front - ISIS - Al Nursra" and so on.

 

You also tried that in the 80's in Lebanon... Do you remember how it ended?

 

There is no shortage of stupid people.. Most don't have a clue about Salafists.. or who is fighting whom in Syria.

 

Once again you deflect from the facts - refuse to address these facts with anything other than fallacious dismissal - followed by comments that have no bearing on the topic.

The Christians in Syria most definitely have a clue who these disgusting Salafist pieces of human garbage are.

That is why the Christians in Syria fight on the side of Assad - They don't want the radical Islamist extremists to take over Syria and turn it into a Sharia Nightmare -- like what exists in your beloved Saudi Arabia.

 

Everybody is fighting everybody. It's a shitshow and only a fool would stay there.

 

We mobilized for WW I. Although late to the fight, our arrival in Europe may have turned the tide in favor of the allies. Wilson favored a strong League of Nations following the war, based on self-determination. That principle ran contrary to the colonial orientation of the French and British. Had we joined the League, we may have exercised a positive influence that would have mitigated the harsh peace of the Treaty of Versailles. A Republican Congress rejected U.S. membership in the League. The French and British insisted on German repatriations for their war debts, driving Germany into massive inflation when they paid those debts by simply printing money. That, the occupation of the Rhineland, and the fact that the German people had been led to believe they were winning the war right up to the German surrender, led to the rise of the Nazis...claiming that the German people had been sold out by their own Establishment. By the same token...U.S. financial in situations insisted that the allies repay their war loans to us, aggravating their insistence that the Germans ultimately pay for the total cost of the war. That, in part, set the stage for the Great Depression, which went from a stock market downturn to a financial collapse, in part due to a trade war instituted by the Smoot-Hawley protectionist tariffs.
On the Kurds...I have no problem in withdrawing from Syria...but not via the abandonment of the Kurds, with whom we were allied, in order to defeat ISIS.

 

Poorly. But failure does not invalidate a concept.

 

Stay where? Syria? Yes, Syria is a disaster and has been since 1947.. Too many coups and assassinations.

 

If the U.S. had simply kept rolling into Syria after the 2003 invasion of Iraq (as had been suggested and apparently considered) then we wouldn't have most of these problems.

 

The Syrians don't support Assad, but they are fearful of him..

Salafis in Saudi Arabia are conservative and peaceful. That's why they aren't like Iraq, Iran or Syria.. and have been a solid US ally since the late 1930s. Sadly, too many ignorant people don't know who their friends are.

 

Technically Syria is still a sovereign state and the only foreign military that has legal permission to be in Syria is Russia.

Obama's regime change in Syria failed big time.

One thing Syria, Russia and America has in common, they all want Iran out of Syria.

 

As per the article - the one you conveniently chose to ignore - as is normally the case with anything that conflicts with your fantasy perspective of your beloved El Saud ... The people in Syria were protesting Assad - and do not like him that much - What they don't want however is the radical Islamist Salafi extremists to take over .. which is why the people of Syria fight for Assad.

Saudi Arabia is the cradle of Salafi extremist ideology - an Orwellian Totalitarian nightmare. Saudi Arabia has been exporting this extremist Islamist ideology all over the world for decades - arming and/or supporting these groups.

Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haraam, Al Shabaab - and a host of other radical Islamist extremist groups - all share the same Saudi inspired radical Islamist extremist ideology.

With friends like that -- who needs enemies ?

 

Of course the people in Syria don't want ISIS...but you are very confused.

ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab all hate Saudi Arabia.. In fact, ISIS declared war on KSA in 2011 and has carried out over 3 dozen suicide bombings in KSA.. many other plots have been foiled.

AQ has been the avowed enemy of Saudi Arabia since 1994. Don't you know anything?

The Taliban are Deobandi and influenced by Muslim Brotherhood which has been banned in KSA since King Faisel.

You have never been to Saudi Arabia, what makes you think that every foreign radical who calls himself Salafi is Salafi? LOLOL Good grief, Man.. use your head.

 

Yep. And the Kurds have fought alongside the Russians too. The Kurds are self-serving, they don't give a **** about the U.S.....they just want free weapons and a state of their own. As for the captured ISIS fighters they are supposedly guarding....kill them all, problem solved. Does anyone honestly think they'll be rehabilitated in a desert prison? Hell no, the moment they get out it will the same ole ****, more terrorism.

You got a problem with Turkey? Go yap at the European NATO members. Seriously, where the F are all these other so-called countries? This problem is in their back yard but they are a bunch of pussys who always want U.S. taxpayers to do their bidding. Especially the Germans. F them too.

Like it or not, Russia is there and they are cleaning the mess up. Assad is the best dictator in the ME and those desert savages over there only understand dictatorships. They don't go vote for food stamps like half the country does here.

Where in the hell were all you liberals when Obongo left the Kurds high and dry in Iraq? It's your savior that caused the problem and armed ISIS in the first place.

 

Syria doesnt want us there. Turkey doesnt want us there. Why should we be there?

We never should have been there. But we should withdraw in some manner that doesn't subject our former allies to be slaughtered by an ally in name only.

 

You mobilized during but you didn't keep your army at a significant level after the armistice. The only branch of the USA armed forces that was kept at reasonnable strenght was the navy. Your army and air forces were pathetic, understaffed and under equiped.

Wilson was a joke both to the american public and to the european powers. They appreciated the help but they wouldn't accept a moron like wilson telling them what to do. The league of nation, like the UN, had no teeth. It was a discussion forum nothing more, just like the GA is today.

The french imposed the Versaille treaty because germany invaded france twice in a 44 years period (1870 & 1914). They believed that if they kept germany poor and disarmed they'd be able to prevent it from trying again. It didn't work because, funny enough, both the british and the USA stopped enforcing it and started trading again with germany and facist Italy. FDR was a big fan of Mussolini in the 30's.

People keeps blaming the french for the VT and because they surrendered to the german in 1940, but they keep forgetting the France wasn't an industrial powerhouse like germany and the UK. The never were able to out produce its neighbor. It was an agrarian society first and foremost. The two wars it had fought already had a big impact on their manpower and their overall economy. The Prussian also collected war tribute after their conquest in 1870 which also explain why France wanted to capitalize on the german defeat.