U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 11.8% in First Quarter of Fiscal Year

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by Giftedone, Feb 10, 2020.

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Does Trumps massive spending make him an even bigger Socialist than Obama ?

  1. Yes - Society is on the hook for all this spending and wealth redistribution is socialism

    4 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. No - Military and other programs that I like are funded by Santa Clause and not Taxes.

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Cut HANDOUT WELFARE, but leave Social Security and Medicare ALONE -- those are EARNED 'entitlements'.

    I've written about a thousand posts about this kind of stuff (and the problems never go away, or change).

    We need to completely overhaul the U. S. Tax Code to get RID of ALL the tax loopholes, tax shelters, exclusions, exemptions, deductions, 'carried interest', and all the other corrupt crap that allows the mega-wealthy to pay little or NOTHING as a real percentage of the taxes they are supposed to be owing....

    Until we finally do THAT one all-important thing, everything else is just posturing, speech-making, dancing, politics, and BULLSHIT!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  2. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At least we don't impeach the president just because we hate him and he beat us.

    Anyways, since my way is sheer insanity, what's your strategy? What would YOU do if you were the president?
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) Protection from what ? Is there some massive army massing on our borders that I did not hear about ? Nukes are what protect you - not building more aircraft carriers and fighting regime change wars (not that Trump was responsible for these wars but it is part of the equation).

    In 2000 - "Total" military spending was roundly 300 Billion - after 8 years of Bush it topped 900 billion and exceeded 1 Trillion under Obama.

    Had we maintained the 2000 spend - increasing with inflation - we could have diverted 500 Billion/year x 16 years = 8 Trillion to infrastructure, technology, ramping up our economy to compete in the 3rd millennium.

    Instead we threw that money down the toilet fighting pointless wars - to pad the pockets of the military industrial complex.

    2) Healthcare The total healthcare spend for 2017 was 3.5 Trillion - almost as much as the entire federal budget for the year.

    Other first world nations provide Universal Healthcare (UHC) -and equivalent service - but they do it at roughly half the cost - despite the fact that these are inefficient and bloated bureaucracies.

    It is not mathematical rocket science to see that there is 1.75 Trillion dollars on the table - were we only to just adopt one of the better of these other systems - strait across the board ... and I don't care what we call it "Socialized medicine" or what ever. If it saves 1.75 Trillion - who cares what it is called - it is way better than our current system of healthcare extortion.

    Call it a 50/50 split between Gov't and Public funding - each then having their spend reduced by half - and that is another 800 Billiion/year x 16 years = 12 Trillion

    Interest on our debt is now over 500 Billion/year and increasing rapidly after being stable from 2000 to 2017. Add another 8 Trillion over 16 years - again to pad the pockets of the same folks who own the military industrial complex and the healthcare and insurance oligopolies.

    3) Planned Parenthood is a no brainer. It costs far less for contraception or an abortion - than bringing another welfare baby into the world.
     
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  4. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because it's a job and the personnel earn their money.
     
  5. rahl

    rahl Banned

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  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Annual interest payments on our debt are now over 500 Billion/year and rising fast. From 2000 to roughly 2017 these payments were stable at roughly 400 Billion. The reason for this - despite a massive increase to the debt from 5 Trillion to 20 Trillion - is because ave interest rates on this debt were brought down from over 7% to roughly 2.25%

    Without getting too much into theory - the decrease in the ave interest rate on our debt was accomplished by messing with the invisible hand - and that hand is now striking back.

    The Fed is now out of bullets - and the debt is now 23 Trillion - and we will not be able to lower interest rates much further. We have to float a massive amount of debt every year - and the interest rate on this debt is a function of supply and demand. We are lucky that European Bonds are paying near Zero - as this supports demand for our debt - even though the 30 year bond is at a ridiculously low 2% https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=US30Y

    If at some point interest rates start to rise again - and this is inevitable - things could get really ugly very fast. Just a 1% increase in the average interest would mean an increase in the annual interest payments of 230 Billion.
     
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  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's ridiculous. All Gov't workers - Military included - have jobs. When the money that these folks earn is paid for by "wealth redistribution" (aka Socialism) - it is Socialism.

    Just because you happen to like Program A - but not Program B - does not make one socialism and the other not socialism.
     
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  8. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Uhhh.....and who pays those jobs?

    Military spending is as socialist as publicly funded healthcare.
     
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  9. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The government pays their salary and Trump has objectively increased their spending despite a lack of need for that increase.

    It is the single largest socialist program in the United States.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  10. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are correct there are too many RINO's and Democrats in Congress. Have you supported the cuts Trump has called for? He proposes cuts and cuts in rates of growth in this budget.

    Did you note how the Democrats boo'd at the SOTU when he announced how many had been moved off for stamps and into better paying jobs. Surely you don't think the Dems or their candidates are going to cut spending.

    Vote for fiscal conservatives. They are the only ones who have produced surpluses or at least meager deficits.
     
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  12. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's a different equation when those in the military earn the money they're making vs people who work and have their money taken from them, tossed into a pot, and spread around to even those who haven't earned it.
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    When we can conduct a three front war and have reserves to sustain it. What do you say?
     
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  14. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Veto and get into another pissing match with Pelosi and the House and shutdown government? And I bet she and the Dems would love nothing more than to force him into another shutdown.
     
  16. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the difference we see here is that IMO, simply 'being in the military' doesn't automatically equate to 'earning ones keep in said military'.

    Also, different perspective:

    Universal Health Care takes from the tax pile and provides health care to the masses

    The Military takes from the tax pile and provides protection to the masses



    I guess it depends on how you define 'earned it'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  17. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Folks, here's a fiscal scenario IF we were to reduce spending growth to a near historical minimum of 3.2%;

    FY2019 outlays; $4.447 trillion
    + 3.2% ($142 billion) = $4.589 trillion

    Revenue growth rate needed to offset $142 billion;

    FY2019 receipts; 3.462 trillion
    +4.1% = $3.604 trillion

    Trump's highest revenue growth rate;

    FY2018 receipts; $3.328 trillion
    FY2019 receipts; $3.462 trillion
    percent of increase; 4%

    Conclusion; If we were to reduce spending growth to a near historical minimum, Trump's highest revenue growth rate WOULD NOT reduce the deficit.
     
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course the Dem's will not cut spending - nor however do they claim to be "fiscal conservatives. The Establishment - both Red and Blue - are responsible for this mess. Too busy taking care of the big money interests that own the various camps.
     
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  19. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-2-10_11-42-57.jpeg
     
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  20. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about not cut the most bloated military in the world — that refuses to be audited — a blank check?


    Y’all are really upset that dear leader got impeached aren’t ya? What is it y’all love to say? Elections have consequences...
     
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  21. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From who?
    Who are we fighting exactly?
     
  22. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Even fighting a two front war is taxing on the military. Remember when we were in full battle in both Iraq and Afghanistan, our troops were doing too many tours, and getting too fatigued. There was too much strain while continuing both campaigns. It can only be done when we have help and the length of the campaign is limited. A three front war(s) is a pipe dream for water walkers.
     
  23. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    My question isn't to you. My question didn't state anything. That is why they call it a "question".
     
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  24. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeh, we shouldn’t have been there either.
    Protect our boarders, stay out of other nations unless they intact section 5.
     
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  25. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In addition to the above, here's a simple deficit reduction formula;

    FY2004 Outlays; $2.292 trillion
    FY2005 Outlays; $2.472 trillion, UP 7.4%
    FY2006 Outlays; $2.654 trillion, UP 7.4%
    FY2007 Outlays; $2.730 trillion, UP 3%

    FY2004 Receipts; $1.879 trillion
    FY2005 Receipts; $2.154 trillion, UP 14.6%
    FY2006 Receipts; $2.406 trillion, UP 11.7%
    FY2007 Receipts; $2.567 trillion, UP 6.8%

    Fiscally, Bush's revenue growth rates excessively surpassed his spending growth rates.

    Results;

    FY2004 Deficit; $412 billion
    FY2007 Deficit; $162 billion, DOWN $250 billion

    NOTE: Trump's highest revenue growth rate; 4%

    ---------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020

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