HINH have we come to this?

Where is that coming from?

 

Too much centralized authority. Many laws that work 'here' dont make any sense 'there', but we impose them on eathother regardless, and innevitably become resentful as a result.

 

There is nothing outside of communist China more slavish than the American left.

 

Now you are being cute. The Democrat party, for most of the twentieth century, was the party of the working man, the party of the unions. Of course things change. I think what bothers you, and those like you is that you are no longer have any hope of being the majority. The Democrat party has become, to a large extant, the party of the people, the people being largely blacks, Hispanics, native Americans. I think that drives your anger far more than differences in policies or ideologies. Trump was, more than anything, a fruition and manifestation of that anger, and loudly and continuously applauded by his base. A base which you appear to be a part of. A base which is more than a little racist, perhaps. Just one man's opinion, a man I suspect has been around longer than and seen more of the world than you have.

 

It's rather arrogant to claim half of America isn't part of "the people." An all powerful central government is not democracy.

 

Nonsense the Democratic party has become the party of the apparatchiks, the bureaucrats and the poseurs. People with little or no skin in the game busily screwing up everyone else's lives because they think they know better led by power hungry jackasses to whom personal freedom for anyone but them is anathema.

Oh and the real reason the establishments left and right had to destroy Trump at any cost was because he was everything they pretended to be and aren't. Trump actually does care about this country and it's people The Dem leadership and their Neocon allies in all thinks corrupt and nasty don't give a damn about anything but power and they'll burn the country to the ground to get it if they have to.

 

Not part of the Democrat's people. And oh, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a republic. The people don't get things done. The people we choose do. Could we choose better people? Perhaps.
As you rail against our government, which parts would you change? The regulatory agencies, social security, medicare? How would you make government better and which government services and protections would you eliminate? Seriously.

 

But no one on the right is?

 

What happened: 1) The Democrats, and to a lesser extent the Republicans, were split by the civil rights revolutions of the 50's and 60's. The parties were re-aligned broadly on cultural axes, one side for one side against the legacy of civil rights. 2) a closely related development was the divide over the self-concept of America, caused by the Vietnam War. Since that war the very meaning and significance of "patriotism" has changed, along lines that track the cultural divide opened up by Civil Rights. 3) The nativists, populists, and people in general who cleaved to a pre-1960's vision of America (people who could before be found in both parties,) gravitated to the Republicans. Under the aegis of the Culture War, the populism of Republicans manifested itself as the ethnic populism of White-grievance. White-grievance populism is a major driver for the Authoritarian trend in the Republican party in the last three decades. That Authoritarian trend has had many important markers: government Shutdowns, the attempt at a legal coup d'état with the impeachment of Bill Clinton, the Bush Admin's warmongering and related violations of key civil rights, the nomination of Sarah Palin (a clear pre-Trump figure), the Birther-conspiracy in response to the election of the first black man to the US presidency, the Debt Ceiling-gambit of 2013, the theft of the President's Supreme Court pick in 2016, and finally the elevation of a right and true Authoritarian Demagogue to the Presidency, in 2016.

Shorter version: The Civil Rights era basically made the Republican party go insane; or, alternately, convinced populists that the country was being transformed utterly from what it had heretofore always been, and they couldn't handle it. The GOP's response has been to become more and more antinomian with each passing year, especially since Reagan left office. The end of the Cold War, and the victory of the Republicans in tax & economic policy, has only sharpened the yawning cultural divide.

 

I think some of it is that you have a minority ( republicans ) trying to assert as much control over the majority as they can get their hands on. The majority resents it. And they resent the people doing it.

And the minority resents the majority because they are liberal and progressive, and Republicans pretty much just want everything to remain the same, and dont really enjoy change.

 

That is kind of what I have been trying to get people to see. Not so much your argument. It is not a matter of this or that. It is incredibly complex and nuanced. The shrill voices from both sides have shouted down the voices of reason, of moderation. The current congress seems to have no room for statesmen. I hate seeing the once proud GOP, the party of the silent majority, the christian(?) right reduced to a bunch of petulant old white guys.

 

That does not make them the "party of the people". Supporting unions has been one of the biggest disasters for the working man. Anyone I know who has worked for a company them uses union labor absolutely HATES them. They have too much protection, they get paid way too much, and they are lazy as hell as a result. This has encouraged employers to automate, look for cheap labor abroad, or import cheap labor here. These are all things that go AGAINST the working man's best interest.

Another fallacy in your logic. Whites still make up the majority of the population, yet you say the democrats have become the party of the blacks, hispanics, and native americans. They are not the majority they are the minority and that is who the democrats have come to prefer. Many whites resent that as whites still need their government to advance their interests as well. Yet all we seem to see are importing poor "refugees and dreamers" who immediately need special help and assistance and accommodations from the struggling native population. Which makes no sense as America keeps exporting it's jobs and automating the ones that stay here. You see them talk about reparations for people who have never been slaves. You see them push preferential treatment to POC and women via affirmative action and welfare programs like affordable housing and medicare for all. Meanwhile poor whites in areas like the Appalachia are told to find a way for themselves and stop being racist for not wanting to fund some welfare rats healthcare.

In summary, democrats are not the party of the people. They are the party of identity politics and reverse racism. This is why politics are so divisive, because democrats blame everything on identity groups. Do you see Republicans doing the same? The push towards globalism and multiculturalism has ensured that western countries will never be united in a common cause. It will always be that we want our group to win. That's nature by the way, not racism.

 

Do you really think outsourcing to china and taxing business so HIGH that they MOVE to China or Mexico (automotive included) is going to help out this particular Auto worker? Its crap policies like this that made this guy have to go get a job at Mickey D's in the first place!

 

It goes hand in hand with the fallacy of their logic all together. They constantly think "helping the working man" means stiffing the employer who was giving them a decent wage. Democrats always do this. They punish people who succeed and amass wealth as a result, and give it to lazy people who have done nothing and refuse to do anything. They think they are Robin hood but what is really happening is these rich fat cats are just circumventing their little power grabs and the country suffers as a result. Republicans constantly work WITH business owners and entrepreneurs. Trying to help them so they can help the people as free market capitalism intended. Democrats work AGAINST business owners and entrepreneurs which drives them away from the American worker and into the loving arms of other countries who want their wealth.

 

There you go proving my point for me. Resisting change and still looking for someone to blame.

 

No - a 'bad president' doesn't summarize it. We have had a reality 'star' in the WH. One that openly ignored and criticized blue states over red. Openly stated that one side's politics were trying to indoctrinate children in schools. Regardless of your views on the subjects, can you not see the divisiveness of that? And the fact that he is refusing the concede, even as his own administration has done so, fans the flames of division. He has an 'us versus them' attitude - not the right message from a president.

 

Got an example in this thread?

 

True. The Muslims. The foreigners. The illegal aliens. The Deep State. Obama, Hillary, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos. The communists. The Chinese. The Mexicans. The non-whites. His niece. It's always the fault of someone else, and everybody is out to get him. I think that in addition to antisocial and narcissistic personality traits, Trump also has paranoid traits. What a sick man. What a despicable human being. How in the hell we allowed him to befoul the Oval Office?

 

What point? The guy working at Mcdonalds is likely a line worker. That robot is likely doing the job he lost. You don't work at mcdonalds if you are a controls engineer or weld tech. Trust me, I work in automotive as an IT person. The "working man" should fear these robots unless they plan on learning Alan Bradley PLC logic

 

That is the point.
The Chinese did not take that line worker job - the robot did. You can be mad at the robot if you like, but somehow I don't think it cares.
It's like the switch from coal to gas. You either change or you lose. It's a shame, but it's the way it works.

You should be looking to give up PLC's and take some coding courses.

 

The robot took the line workers job because he worked for a union and got way too much pay for a job that is so simple a robot can do it. That is the point that is rushing over your head.

I'll just stick to Cisco and help the robots talk on the network so my employer stays happy and willingly gives me a chunk of his pie. The old American dream

 

Every office in our government except President and VP are filled democratically. Senators and Reps are expected to look out for their respective State's interests and the office of President is supposed to serve both sides.

I have no idea how I would shrink the government but I don't think we will see that attempted any time in the near future. Trump worked on it and see how that worked out for him. I don't have to look any deeper than Epstein's suicide to see how far the government will go to protect itself. That was brazen in your face corruption and murder.

 

Didn't go over my head at all. It is, in fact, my point.

Beware of 5G.

 

Your kidding!!!

 

No, I'm not. Go ahead.