Culture of Shootings , "Thoughts and Prayers" But No Solutions

Can you provide evidence people off themselves (commit suicide) to preserve the right to bear arms? LOL. Good one.

Why do Japanese citizens kill themselves? You are scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

I find it fascinating people who live in relatively free countries because of the existence of the United States as founded wish it to be destroyed.

 

What's to discuss? You made a bigoted and blanket statement that gun owners are "geopolitically illiterate"...I pointed out how shallow that "thinking" is.

So what exactly is there beyond that to discuss?

 

And he acts as though that constitutes some sort of content worthy of discussion...

 

Re US existence and freedoms in other nations. I accept that point - without
USA the rest of the world would be either Islamic, Fascist or Communist.
Liberal democracy as in Europe would be no force at all.

Someone in my family often states that if they had access to guns they would
have killed themselves. About 25k Americans do that each year.

Am I right, six gun deaths a year in Japan? That nation has the right to guns
but the conditions of ownership are strict. I think Japan could be a good model
for the USA. The 'right to bear arms' says nothing about background checks,
training, storage etc..

 

I’m very glad your family member is still with us. I hope someone is helping them with their suicidal tendencies. The idea only applying for a license is the only thing keeping a person alive is terrifying to me.

I’m not sure I completely understand how a little paperwork prevents them owning a firearm. Or how criminals still commit mass shootings with illegal firearms but people can’t get one to commit suicide. It sounds like their health status may prevent them from purchasing a firearm in the US as well.

Probably correct on the number of gun deaths. But their suicide rate per 100,000 is twice that in the US. I care more about people not dying than how they die I guess.

By the way, our mass shooting problems were less when schools offered education on firearm safety and target use. It seems the more we demonize a thing, be it firearms or illicit drugs, that demonization makes the thing more novel and exciting, leading to misuse by young people especially. So on education about firearms we agree. We definitely need more.

 

Given the gazillion or so different ways you can kill yourself, this only means the person was not serious about it.

 

It's just easier. Like having a high bridge nearby, or in the olden days, sleeping pills.
(I understand that you can't overdose on those pills now.)

 

And thus, the person was not serious about it.
People who choose a gun to commit suicide have committed themselves to death; if they don't have a gun, they will find another way.

 

Statistics show that's not actually the case.
Ease of suicide makes suicide more of an option.

In Melbourne there was about one suicide per fortnight from the 300m high Westgate Bridge.
Putting up fencing stopped this.
And Melbourne's suicide rate went down by one death per fortnight. Other methods might
have just been more unpalatable.

 

If jumping off a high bridge was my only option I'd just have to cowboy up and carry on.

 

LOL. I’m petrified of heights. I don’t disagree.

As a true liberal, my body/my right and all that, I’m glad I have the option of a firearm to end my life. As someone who has euthanized more than my share of animals and watched a bit of human suffering and death by dehydration/starvation as well, I find great value in the option of ending my life on my terms. The war on drugs has removed the most humane options for my animals and for humans, so I don’t think firearms are too bad of a plan B.

 

The democrats are working to eliminate those those safeguards.
.

 

I believe we all have the right to choose our ending and I hope life never gets so heavy that I have to make that choice.

 

Demonstrate this to be true.
What % of suicidal people claim they did not kill themselves for no reason other than they could not get a gun?

There are a gazillion easy ways to kill yourself.

 

Key senators sound bipartisan optimism on expanded background checks

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...=857693951420692326&utm_medium=Email Sailthru


Makes good sense.

Weapons have become such an integral part of this culture that it is taken for granted that such lethal items be owned .....almost without proper preparation and skill training , understanding of safety, particularly in a domestic environment.......

Folks that want to purchase weapons.....( or already own them) should meet certain requirements.. ie: shooting skills test...... that should be repeated annually....and emotional stability. ( which could be part of the background check. ) Education for weapons safety in la kinds of environments. ( home, vehicle, while hunting etc)

The culture of weapons has been romanticized by movies & media too. and is firmly entrenched in this society. Weapons are not just a "right".....they are part of of the American psyche. Weapons are also very symbolic.

The wild west is very much alive and well. ......Not just in the number of weapons ...but the content of video games that are so popular with many. All this is self reinforcing of the weapons culture.......aka culture of violence.

 

Yes, a gazillion ways - but fencing off your local Lovers Leap often means
people don't resort to another means. Some will, many won't. You can kill
yourself by leaping into a shark frenzy or scaling down the side of your local
zoo's lion enclosure - but there are ways that seem palatable for many who
are afraid of the gore.
The Melbourne Westgate Bridge story was based upon studies of suicide
rates. Fencing it off lowered the city's suicide rate.
Let's say there's TWO suicide groups - the casual Lovers Leap types, and
the hardcore who are going, no matter what.

 

I totally understand what you are saying. I too like the concept of ending my life on my terms......... and "death with dignity" if at all possible. The right to die is becoming an important issue as I get older........ and HOW I die.. We have no control over being born.........and a lot of life's circumstances....... so some control at the end seems appropriate. If possible (IN NY VIEW) This is totally different from wanting t end one's life because one can't cope with it......due to mental depression or other psych aliments.

 

Aren’t you a nurse? Just watching a few family members die of dehydration/starvation and in severe pain in some cases really changed my views on human euthanasia. I can’t imagine a career of watching it happen over and over.

The animals are hard for me to euthanize. You know it’s best to end suffering but it tears you up to do it. For humans I still have more questions than answers, but I don’t see having no option outside of nature taking its course as ethical anymore.

I absolutely agree end of life or extreme quality of life scenarios are totally different than depression prompted suicide.

Look at us, making a depressing thread on violence even more macabre. I’ve never had this discussion with a healthcare professional so it’s enlightening for me.

 

Not all health care workers think this way. Some have strong 'religious" beliefs.......which dictate how they view this subject. I used to think the topic was "depressing " etc......but in reality......death is a fact of life. That seems to call for a matter of fact view of it......if one can. Of course it is highly charged with emotion tradition, symbolism etc etc.. because LOSS is painful.......but we as a society are changing our views. People with terminal illness have the right to end life and prevent suffering.

May I ask?? Are you a vet??? I am a die hard animal lover..... and have seen my own fur family members put down. It is heart breaking.......but I KNOW it is the most humane thing to do.... QUALITY of life is so important. Not just for humans.

death is part of shootings / guns, and violence........... in a very unpleasant way. Maybe if we talked about tit more......

 

Sure I understand the religion angle well. Most of my peers from high school and college are healthcare professionals and devout Christians. My views are a bit unorthodox but you would have to say my beliefs are “Christian” as well. I’m not sure what other religions believe about euthanasia or intrinsic value of human life, but many Christians are opposed to any and all suicide/euthanasia.

Yes, our views are changing. My brother worked with hospice in Hawaii for awhile and told me about the options there. It was logical. The patient is given control of the drug with the option to use it at their discretion and on their timetable. I hope all states follow suit. I’m not sure if living wills allow for giving the drug to another or not. That’s where the ethics get blurry for me. There are a couple people in my life I could make the decision for, but even that would be difficult.

Sure ask me anything. I’m pretty open about my life. No not a vet. I toyed with the idea but when I was in college vet schools weren’t even taking “my kind” so I never got real serious about it. Probably for the best. Getting up and out in a blizzard at 2:00 a.m. is hard enough when it’s your animals—I may have grown to resent doing it for someone else’s animals. I don’t really know....

I’m a simple farmer/rancher that was lucky/motivated enough to buy a pretty good education. I’ve also been very blessed to have worked with some vets and non vets with talent that were willing to teach as well as work for a check. So outside of phlebotomy (just don’t have the knack) I’ve evolved to being able to handle most vet work. My wife “collects” species so I have to keep learning. Believe it or not, llamas take a different skill set than Jersey or Angus cows. LOL

Oh, I get on well with animal lovers!

Yes! Your previous post on gun owners needing to see wounds etc. in the healthcare setting really is a fine idea (again I’m not authoritarian at all so would have to be voluntary or perhaps educational in a school setting to suit me). I know healthcare folks see all the negative effects of firearm violence and it has to affect you. I really do believe getting people to see more of the realities of damage firearms can cause has value—in the criminality arena, the suicide arena, and the safety/accidental shooting arena.

 

Which doesn't either address, or respond to the post. Why? The left love them some background checks. Apply it to voting. Why not again?

 

I think it's possible to purchase guns that shoot off 10 bullets or more a minute. It's terrifying to think that spraying that many bullets killing off so many people out in public. Something like that could happen coming to your town soon. Let's hope it doesn't happen.

 

I just found out in Essex, MD, there was a shooting at a convenience store where two were killed and one wounded 2 dead in shooting at Essex Royal Farms; Suspect, parents dead (wbaltv.com)

 

I just thought that any person not in his or her right mind could pick up one of those guns that you go off to war with could use that sort of gun and go to Main Street in Anytown USA or anywhere and use that sort of gun in a busy intersection and kill off as many of us as possible. Can you imagine something like this happening in your town? Scary isn't it? There are a lot of those that are insane or as crazy out there and you have have your eye out looking for them. Beware of it when you go out today.

 

You would be mistaken. You can't just pick up a weapon that is made to go to war.