Russian Tanks Cross Border Into Ukraine

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was not my point. My point was that a little electronic gadget on the wing of a jet, was able to put the great Aegis System of the SS Donald Cook out of service. The crew panicked because the jet kept coming at them and simulating an attack. This went on for a long time and the sailors panicked because they weren't able to react. Washington issued a complaint to Moscow.

    A few weeks ago according to an Israeli newspaper, the Americans were in a panic mode and were flying about for a week looking for a Russian sub armed with 8 missiles. It was in Lebanon and then disappeared from their radar at the same time that an American aircraft carrier entered the Mediterranean. Moscow said that there was nothing wrong with the sub, and that it's maintaining contact with headquarters.

    From what I recall, the Russian sub had been tracked from the time it left the Baltic Sea, so the Americans never knew that it could completely disappear off their radar. I think it was Putin's response to Biden's insult. He does those things like with the Khibiny neutralizing the Aegis when the SS Cook came to take over Crimea.

    Then again, why should Russia invest in aircraft carriers when its an aircraft carrier itself and extends from one end of the world to the other? Washington does because it wants to control the world, but Russia's only concern is to protect its vast territory whether it's in the Arctic, Black Sea, Caucasus, Far East or Europe. What they would need are tanks and electronic systems to put the weapons of their adversaries out of service. Besides it's much cheaper!

     
  2. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Based on what Churchill knew about Stalin and Hitler when he said that around 1939 it is interesting that he would ally with Stalin. At that time Stalin was already well known for terrible crimes against humanity, revelations of Hitler's crimes didn't come until later.
     
  3. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A lot is said about the Holodomor by the Banderites, but not about the Ukrainian murderer Lazar Kaganovich who caused it. He was the one in charge of distributing grain in Ukraine, and he was the one that denied grain to certain towns and districts - so yes it was genocide.

    So does this make the killings of the Poles less of a crime, and does it make the killings of the Russian Ukrainians who were burned and hacked in Odessa more recently, and the pogrom of the Crimean protesters by the nationalists a lesser crime? I don't think so.




    Evil is as evil does.[​IMG]
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    U.S. concerned about Russian troop movements near Ukraine, discussing regional tensions with NATO allies

    • The White House said it was engaged in discussions with NATO allies about growing tensions in Ukraine amid Russia’s military buildup near the border.
    • “Russia now has more troops on the border with Ukraine than at any time since 2014,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki said during a briefing.
    • Russia has increased its military presence along the Ukrainian border, sparking concerns in the West of a military conflict between the two neighboring countries.
    • A Kremlin spokesman said Russia will deploy its forces on its territory where it wants for as long as it wants.
    • Russia is conducting more than 4,000 military drills this month, according to the country’s Defense Ministry.
    WASHINGTON – The Biden administration said Thursday that it was engaged in discussions with NATO allies about escalating tensions in Ukraine as Russia has increased its military presence near the country’s border.

    “Russia now has more troops on the border with Ukraine than at any time since 2014, five Ukrainian soldiers have been killed this week alone,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki said during a briefing, calling the matter “deeply concerning.”

    “The United States is increasingly concerned by recent escalating Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine, including Russian troop movements on Ukraine’s border,” she said, adding that the Biden administration was consulting with NATO allies about the uptick in tensions and cease-fire violations.

    Psaki’s comments follow a contentious phone call between German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin, in which she demanded that Moscow reduce its force posture in the area near eastern Ukraine.

    “The Chancellor demanded that this build-up be unwound in order to de-escalate the situation,” the German government wrote in a readout of the call between the two leaders.

    ... ctd: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/08/us-...ements-near-ukraine-discussing-with-nato.html

    I hope that we and NATO are prepared to take action if Russia invades Ukraine. The Putin regime needs to be put in its place if that happens.
     
  5. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    Well go sign up or better yet, go join an AZOV battalion along the Donetsk or Lugansk front. If you are fond of suicide, just do what you want.

    Jen Pissaki should really shut her pie hole. I don't doubt some Ukrainian soldiers have died recently, as well as the civilians in the Donbass that they are firing upon. Reading her comments, you'd think it was the Russian military shooting cross-border and killing Ukrainian soldiers. NOT TRUE.

    The cease-fire violations? AZOV battalion. Do you know anything about the recent law to be passed concerning the special status of Donbass? Of course you don't. If you did, then you'd know why there's no cease fire anymore. The nazis are pissed at Zelensky.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    As far as the phone call with Merkel:

    "While exchanging opinions on ways of resolving the intra-Ukrainian crisis, the Russian President and the German Chancellor voiced concern in connection with the escalation of tensions in southeastern Ukraine. Vladimir Putin drew attention to the provocative actions of Kiev which is now deliberately aggravating the situation along the line of contact. The parties noted the need for the Kiev authorities to implement earlier agreements without fail, in particular those aimed at the launch of direct dialogue with Donetsk and Lugansk and at legally formalising the special status of Donbass.

    They urged the parties to the conflict to display restraint and to invigorate the negotiating process in order to fully implement the 2015 Minsk Package of Measures as the only legal foundation for a peace settlement. They reaffirmed their commitment to further close coordination of Russian and German efforts, including within the Normandy Format, between political advisers and foreign ministers."

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/65325

    The 2015 Minsk Deal required that (and Ukraine agreed) that the Donbass would be given a special status to be implemented in the Ukrainian Constitution. They haven't done this. This is why the war is still going on. It's the ****ing Ukrainians fault. Deal with it.

    https://tass.com/world/1221141
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  6. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's an analysis of the military situation by Alexander Mercouris of the Duran:

    Two American destroyers entered the Black Sea, but when the US said it was a show of force in support of Ukraine, it's a lie. Turkey had to be notified 15 days before about the destroyers entering, and that would have been before the Russian build up. More than likely the ships entered to gather intelligence in support of the Ukrainian build up and to help them with command and control.

    The Russian move would have countered the presence of these 2 warships since there is extensive jamming going on in Eastern Ukraine and the GPS is only working sporadically. The Russians possess all the electronic means at their disposal to counter any assistance these 2 warships might have given to Ukraine. Since the ships have no purpose, Washington is making the excuse that they are there as a response to the Russian build up.

    According to Scott Ritter a former military officer and another party who has worked closely with the military, the US military is in no position for a show down with the Russian forces. There are not enough US or Nato troops in Europe, and if they were sent they would be rapidly overwhelmed by the massive Russian troops which can than be deployed to the region.

    Scott Ritter said that not only does the US lack the ground forces, it also lacks the air assets and that even the US's most sophisticated planes, have never operated in a combat zone with the highly sophisticated air defense system that the Russians have deployed in massive density along the Ukrainian border. To do so would be suicidal for the Americans.
    As for the political situation, Alex said that Ukraine is not getting any political support from Germany, and Russia has insisted all along that the only solution to the situation is the Minsk II agreement with was signed by Ukraine. Moscow will not compromise on that. Anyway it seems that Zalensky is starting to see the futility of the situation, and wants to end the fighting.

    https://theduran.com/ukraine-crisis...-sea-merkel-calls-putin-zelensky-talks-peace/
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    You sound a little biased in favor of the Russians, my friend.

    Ongoing Violations of International Law and Defiance of OSCE Principles and Commitments by the Russian Federation in Ukraine
    As delivered by Acting Deputy Chief of Mission Gregory Macris
    to the Permanent Council, Vienna
    February 14, 2019

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    This week marks four years since the signing of the third and final Minsk agreement, the so-called “Package of Measures.” Although the sides committed on February 12, 2015 to “an immediate and comprehensive ceasefire,” Russia quickly undermined the commitment it had just signed. Russia-led forces shelled and captured the city of Debaltseve and more than 1,500 square kilometers of territory beyond the line of contact. Its ongoing aggression has resulted in the deaths of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.

    For four years now, the totality of the Minsk agreements outlined a viable path out of this devastating conflict. Yet for four years, we have watched Russia, and the forces it arms, trains, leads, and fights alongside, contravene the most fundamental element of the agreement, namely an immediate and comprehensive ceasefire across the line of contact.

    While Debaltseve and massive casualty numbers fade in memory, daily life still remains filled with terror, injury and death in this Russia-manufactured conflict. In its February 11 daily report, the SMM documented an elementary school in Russia-controlled Zolote 5 that has been damaged at least four times by small arms and indirect fire since December 25. Children had to shelter in a basement during a recent artillery barrage, forcing school administrators to close the school indefinitely to protect the students. We call upon the sides to prioritize measures to ease the suffering of civilians on both sides of the line of contact, beginning with a complete ceasefire, withdrawal of proscribed weapons, and disengagement of forces.

    We are concerned by reports of ongoing violence near the Donetsk Filtration Station. The staff of this important facility risk personal danger to ensure water reaches more than a million people on both sides of the line of contact. The introduction and establishment of safety zones around this and other civilian infrastructure, including schools and utility stations, would improve conditions significantly. We also call on Russia to direct the forces it arms, trains, leads, and fights alongside to support the opening of additional crossing points along the line of contact, which would improve conditions for the thousands of civilians who cross it regularly.

    Mr. Chair, Russia’s efforts to destabilize Ukraine are not limited to fighting along the contact line. In its February 5 weekly report, the SMM highlighted the negative economic effects of Russia’s obstruction and harassment of shipping in the Sea of Azov. The director of a ship repair yard in Mariupol described a reduction in business following Russia’s attack near the Kerch Strait, during which it unjustifiably rammed, fired upon, and seized three Ukrainian naval vessels and their crew and blocked the Kerch Strait in violation of international law. We, along with the vast majority of participating States, call on Russia to respect its international obligations and immediately cease obstructing, delaying, and harassing the transit of vessels in the Kerch Strait bound for Ukrainian ports; to immediately release the seized vessels and 24 Ukrainian personnel; and to de-escalate the tensions it has stoked.

    Mr. Chair, we are troubled by Russia’s ongoing repression in occupied Crimea, including reports that the Russian government is pressuring YouTube to take down a video produced by a Ukrainian human rights group that highlights the case of imprisoned Crimean Tatar human rights activist Emir-Usein Kuku. Mr. Kuku faces up to twenty-five years in prison on baseless terrorism charges in retaliation for his civic activism in opposition to the occupation. We call on Russia to end its occupation, to cease its efforts to censor information about its shameful abuses in Crimea, and to immediately release Kuku, his five co-defendants, and all of the approximately 70 other Ukrainians it has wrongfully imprisoned for their dissent.

    The United States fully supports Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, including its territorial waters. We do not, nor will we ever, recognize Russia’s purported annexation of Crimea. We join our European and other partners in affirming that our Minsk-related sanctions against Russia will remain in place until Russia fully implements its Minsk commitments. The separate, Crimea-related sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns full control of the peninsula to Ukraine.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.​

    https://osce.usmission.gov/on-russias-ongoing-violations-in-ukraine-17-2/
     
  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    And then along came Jenny with one of her favorite propaganda sources. Thanks, Jenny.

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-duran/

    [​IMG]



    Reasoning: Far Right, Russian Propaganda, Conspiracy, Poor Sourcing, Lack of Transparency, Plagiarism, Failed Fact Checks
    Country: Cyprus
    World Press Freedom Rank: Cyprus 27/180


    History

    Founded in 2016, The Duran is a strongly right-leaning news and opinion website with ties to Russian state media. Based in Cyprus, the editor of the website is Alexander Mercouris, who in 2012 was disbarred as an attorney in London. According to the Telegraph, he then went on to become a “pro-Russian commentator on world affairs for Russian TV news outlets and websites.”

    The Duran’s director is Peter Lavelle, who is the host of RT’s (Russian state news outlet) political debate program CrossTalk.


    In 2018, the right-leaning Weekly Standard accused The Duran of peddling Russian “Fake News.”

    The website does not provide an about page, mission statement, funding, or obvious ownership information.

    Funded by / Ownership

    The Duran is owned by Cyprus based DRN Media PLC. Moscow native Alex Christoforou is the President and Chairman of DRN Media PLC. Funding for The Duran comes from Paypal and Patreon donations, as well as advertising.


    Analysis / Bias


    In review, The Duran publishes news and opinions with a conservative and pro-Russian perspective, such as this: Roger Stone Shines New Light on Russia-Gate Hoax. This story is copied and pasted directly from the pro-Russian Strategic Culture Foundation. In general, all articles involving Russia are positively slanted such as Russia Grinds Out Wins In Europe and Trump boxed in on Iran, as Putin holds key to prevent war in Persian Gulf (Video). Many articles are poorly sourced to Russian Propaganda outlets such as RT and Sputnik.

    When covering the USA, the Duran demonstrates a conservative bias with frequent articles denigrating the left such as this: Rudy Giuliani DESTROYS Hillary Clinton, “America’s Number One Crime Family” (Video) and this story promoting a conspiracy theory, NXIVM Sex-Cult Prosecutors Have Evidence Of Illegal Clinton Campaign Contributions For “Political Influence”. This latter story is copied and pasted from the right-wing conspiracy website Zerohedge.

    In general, The Duran routinely publishes pro-Russian propaganda and promotes right-wing conspiracies through the use of poorly sourced, plagiarized news articles.

    Failed Fact Checks

    Overall, we rate The Duran a Questionable source based on far-right-wing bias, promotion of Russian propaganda, and right-wing conspiracies, a lack of transparency, use of poor sources plagiarism and, failed fact checks. (D. Van Zandt 11/30/2016) Updated (2/26/2021)

    Source: https://theduran.com/
     
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  9. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Ohhh...look...theduran.....a pro Russian urinal rag of a news outlet.....there must be a paper edition...so its a substitute for toilet paper?
     
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  10. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    You must be jealous of Azov.....they got nice toys to play with....give the rebels and asiatic russkis a bashing in the DPR....deservedly so.

    TASS....another. Ru urinal....you trolls never disappoint.
     
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  11. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Instead of sprouting your usual filth, why not post facts and prove the article wrong - that is if you can.



    [​IMG]
    I know that some are not a sage
    and like to spit out fits and rage.
    But that occurs when hatred rules
    and turns the simple into fools. - Jeannette

     
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  12. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I prefer to focus on the Big Pictures. Russian population and economy is weak, and with the
    shift away from 'fossil fuels' in the West this won't help Russia either. The nation has no
    experience with Democracy. The standard of living is lower than welfare recipients in my
    country Australia - and soon Australia will have a higher GDP too.
    Eventually Russia will align itself with Middle East nations in the same predicament.
     
  13. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Whats to prove....@Durandal had a good link in regards to that "slop pail" of a news outlet.
     
  14. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your "articles" come from terrible sources that can't be trusted to provide accurate, factual, unbiased information. How about you try to verify what they claim before you believe them and post them here?

    Tass and RT, the Duran and Sputnik--
    To believe such sources would be sick!

    The internet is certainly swell!
    It joins the world, one and all!

    But with this comes a major problem--
    A torrent of bilge, bile and sputum.

    Xi and Putin, Khamenei and Kim--
    They give us a net where truth is slim.
     
  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well if that's what the MSM tells you? Then who am I to say otherwise.
     
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  16. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    Biased? Oh you're such an expert, tell me about Ukraine and Russia. How many times have to been to either? What do the locals say? I'm not a betting man but I'd venture to say you're just an armchair quarterback gobbling up all the bilge spewed by CNN and the like.

    The Minsk Protocols are what they are. The Ukrainians signed on that deal, yet they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain. I just linked a recent news article about the Ukrainian government's refusal to implement the constitutional amendments as required by the Minsk deals. That is the foundation of any peace deal to be had. No protection for the ethic Russians means no peace, how hard is that to understand?? Then they whine and cry about Russia Russia Russia so they can get candy $$$ from dumbass American politicians. Have you not figured out that Ukraine is a corrupt shithole? Oh, that's right, you know nothing about Ukraine, its history or its people.

    The Ukrainians are playing us for fools and stealing taxpayers dollars because apparently we're just ****ing dumb enough to keep sending it that that bottomless pit.

    You want to talk bias? Go to the OSCE website and read their daily reports. If you notice anything, it will be that if the rebels in Donbass are violating any of the Minsk protocols, they will call them out. But you will notice that almost all of the ceasefire violations don't point to what side is doing the violating......it's because it's the ****ing Ukrainians. Like I said, deal with it.
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    CNN doesn't report much on Ukraine and Russia. There are better sources for such information.

    Ты откуда? You answer that and maybe we can discuss who knows more about Ukraine and Russia.

    And I don't buy your assertions that the Ukrainians are violating the accords. They have no incentive to do so.
     
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lie number 1 - The Russian forces were never in Ukraine. The battle at Debaltseve was between the Donbass militias and the Ukrainian army. The Ukrainian army was caught in a cauldron, and when the officers called Kiev they were told not to tell the men so they wouldn't surrender, and to leave through the opening - which they did.

    One officer remained and was told by the Donbass militia that the men were free to leave, but they had to leave their heavy equipment, so he called Kiev for advice. Kiev told him to take his attendants and leave in the light vehicles, and to tell the other men to follow them in the heavier ones.

    Needless to say, the men following in the heavier ones were all killed - as intended. Later on when the remaining men finally surrendered, they told the Donbass militia that most of the 3 thousand men that died, did so from friendly fire. They only had 2 weeks training and didn't know how to use the equipment.

    What appalled me though was the appearance of Poroshenko in military uniform to hand out medals with no shame whatsoever, after having sent so many men to their deaths.


    As for the rest of what you quoted, it's the same bunch of lies and garbage. Russia's immune to them though and could care less.





     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  19. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    No incentives? How about billions of American tax dollars? Do you not understand that nobody gives a **** about Ukraine and Ukraine doesn't give a **** about the Donbass....other than they figured out it's their welfare ticket to American handouts? Corrupt oligarchs...the people that run Ukraine...are lining their pockets at our expense playing the victim card. We're just suckers.

    Откуда Вы?

    That's the proper way to ask that question. And no, I didn't need a translator to read your question.

    (spoiler alert, Durandal is claiming he's Russian. after all, if he was claiming to be Ukrainian, then surely he wouldn't ask where I was from in Russian, he would use Ukrainian) :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pray tell, Jenny. How would you know whether Russian forces were in Ukraine? Was it TASS, Sputnik or the Duran that told you that?

    You just spout off with Russian propaganda as if it were demonstrated truth.
     
  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Kiev has every incentive to violate the accords, that's why it hasn't complied with any part of the Minsk agreement. If the two Republics of Donbas are back in Ukraine, there is no way the 'nationalists' from the Western part of Ukraine could ever gain the majority needed to win an election. The only choice they have, would be to let them remain as separate republics and not join Ukraine, or to kill and ethnically cleanse them to change the demographics.

    This is why Russia said that if they move past the line that separates them from Ukraine, they will enter the war.
     
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  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your opinion, and a pretty poor one at that.
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Looking back at the Battle of Debaltseve
    By Mark Raczkiewycz


    KYIV – Four years and one month ago, the second of two major and decisive battles took place in the Donbas war. In the Battle of Debaltseve in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s army tested itself against regular and irregular units of the Russian military, including battle-hardened mercenaries from the Wagner private military outfit.

    As in the August 2014 Battle of Ilovaisk, Kyiv was overwhelmed by a superior foe that broke through thin defensive lines with a heavy concentration of forces and modern weaponry. In the end, more than nine towns and territory were lost in a pocket of land that was sandwiched between Russian-occupied Horlivka to the west and Alchevsk to the east.

    ...

    Details of fighting

    Russian-led forces first advanced on the west flank of the Debaltseve pocket in late January 2015, targeting the town of Vuhlehirsk, a railroad hub.

    U.S. estimates put the concentration of Russian forces in the Debaltseve area at 9,000 “conventional and unconventional troops… this number doesn’t include the cooperation of separatists, partisans and other proxy forces.”

    Ukraine said it faced a combined force of up to 19,000 and by January 27, 2015, Kyiv had 13,000 personnel committed in the area known as Sector C.

    Although “pound for pound” Ukrainian soldiers had a “value of three to one against the Russians,” Mr. Grant said, “they [Russian-led forces] had more numbers, more organization, more equipment and more rockets.”

    One by one, towns fell as Kyiv saw its forces being gradually encircled in the pocket. By January 30, 2015, Vuhlehirsk fell in conditions of blowing snow and frigid winter. By February 9, 2016, the town of Lohvyne was taken over along the M03 highway that linked Ukrainian troops with their headquarters and logistics base in Bakhmut to the northwest.

    Kremlin-led forces had successfully pinched off the bulge three days before the second Donbas war truce was signed in the Belarusian capital. Ukraine’s analysis stated that any interim ceasefire that was agreed upon during talks in Minsk let Russia to amass more forces in the Debaltseve area.

    The U.S. military described Russia’s operational approach as vacillating “between a strategy of attrition and exhaustion.”

    The strategy focused on “trapping Ukrainian ground forces and slowly bludgeoning them through the repetitious employment of indirect fire and armored thrusts,” according to Maj. Fox. As Russian-led forces closed in on Debaltseve itself, “the attack quickly took the form of a siege… to inflict a high cost on the Ukrainian army and the civilian population…in pursuit of the city.”

    By the end of fighting on February 18, 2015, 8,000 civilians had fled the city and another 6,000 were killed, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

    After Vuhlehirsk and before Lohvyne fell, the village of Ridkodub and Nikyshyne fell in the southern end of the pocket in early February 2015. Efforts to retake the fallen towns and villages failed.

    “The overall situation was extremely acute,” the Ukrainian analysis read.

    Moscow-led forces achieved “a high level of synergy” during the fighting, the American military report stated. Coordination illustrated the “Russian predilection for employing drones, Spetsnaz [special forces], GRU [military intelligence] and partisan forces in conjunction with one another for reconnaissance to support the battalion tactical group and army headquarters at the Southern Military District [in Russia’s Rostov-on-Don].”

    Such tight coupling enabled Russian-led forces to create a “near-instantaneous sensor-to-shooting system,” Maj. Fox wrote.

    Fighting also revealed Ukraine’s inferiority at the tactical level and slow reaction to on-the-ground realities because of poor communication with the high command.

    Another mistake, according to British expert Mr. Grant, was Ukraine’s tendency to “concentrate forces” in response to Russian attacks.

    This propensity to “seize the initiative,” Maj. Fox wrote, worked to Russia’s advantage: “Siege warfare plays into Russia’s proclivity for offensive indirect fires to slowly erode Ukrainian combat power and political will, allowing Russia to obtain its associated operational objectives.”

    Withdrawal of forces

    Thus, with the so-called “road of life” cut off for Ukrainian soldiers, the military started to prepare a withdrawal from Debaltseve on February 14, 2015, two days after the Minsk II ceasefire was signed – it was supposed to take effect on February 15.

    The eastern flank of the pocket collapsed by February 16 near the towns of Luhanske and Chornuhyne.

    Despite the truce, Moscow kept advancing on the surrounded city before finally taking it over on February 20, 2015, in clear violation of the second truce.

    Seeing the futility of trying to hold Debaltseve, Kyiv launched small-scale breakouts from the encirclement starting on February 13, 2015. Ukraine’s analyses maintains that it was organized and planned, which led to only to 110 killed and 270 wounded.

    Kyiv inflicted “heavy casualties” on Russian-led forces which stopped them advancing further once the Debaltseve pocket was taken, the Ukrainian analysis read.

    “By the night of February 18, 2015, about 2,500 Ukrainian troops had withdrawn from Debaltseve, leaving about 4,500 soldiers still in and around the city,” Maj. Fox wrote.

    Unlike the Ukrainian analysis, the U.S. major’s report noted that “Ukrainian forces were forced to flee from the roads, abandon their vehicles and make for safety on foot… In the process, Russian forces destroyed innumerable Ukrainian combat vehicles and captured close to 100 Ukrainian soldiers.”

    ... https://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/looking-back-at-the-battle-of-debaltseve/
     
  24. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    You ought to figure out how Viktor Yanukovych got elected.


     
  25. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Putin sent the Russian army into Ukraine it would be a declaration of war. What they did do was to allow their soldiers to go to Ukraine and fight when they were on holiday. According to the OSCE guards when the Russians entered Ukraine, they wore their uniforms, but had no weapons. Then they would go to a depot and pick up a weapon and test it at the shooting range.

    This doesn't mean that the border wasn't open for the Donbas military to enter Russia at will, nor does it mean that Russia didn't help the militia with logistics. I'm sure they did. I'm sure mercenaries were being trained in Russia by private parties as well. But the actual Russian military was not there.

    So where are the lies coming from? Well the Germans say from General Breedlove. He's hallucinating!

    sttpml.org/der-spiegel-germany-slams-nato-european-commanders-comments-on-ukraine-as-dangerous-propaganda/
     

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