Guilty as charged.

I would imagine that you cannot legally carry inside of the capital even if you are otherwise legal and have a concealed permit.

Sounds like he tried pretty hard to make trouble.

 

It would indeed be a crime to carry a gun inside of the capitol, if that is indeed what he did.

But keep in mind that there are still several state capitols in the country where carrying a gun is not illegal.

 

I'm not minimizing anything. I'm putting it in the perspective that it should be viewed when talking about "traitor". In context a traitor is someone that betrays his/her country by trying to overthrow it in some way shape or form. I simply do not, when looking at the intent of the person in question, see that as a valid label to put on him. Don't get me wrong, I consider him a despicable person. But I don't view him as a traitor either.

I've never said any of the above except your 4th point here. Trump never did tell them to riot. He used the same verbiage many other politicians have used through out the years. And while yes, he didn't do anything physically to stop them I can't help but think of the words "what's good for the goose, is good for the gander". Not that I approve of what happened on 1/6. I don't. But I do find it ironic. I might feel differently if others took responsibility for their words. But they don't. When its their side doing it its "ok". Blasphemous when the other side uses the same type of words. I can't help but view it all as a political gamesmanship.

Do you think our system of government is so weak that taking one Rep or Senate member hostage, hurt, or killed, would be enough to actually threaten our system? Our system literally has layers upon layers of redundancies in place to address such things. Indeed past Senators and Reps and even Presidents have been harmed before, outright killed, yet our system was not once put in jeopardy because of it. What you stated here was/is an over exaggeration. The only thing that would actually threaten our system of government is if DC was blown to smithereens. And even then it could be repaired provided we weren't being invaded by foreign countries or in the middle of a civil war.

This is where we disagree. IMO there is no one person to blame for what happened on 1/6. Pointing to Trump is just human natures need to wrap everything up neatly and tightly in a bow. But as the old saying goes...it takes two to tango. I'd love to expound upon this but frankly I'm tired. Both physically and mentally.

 

You're the one who offered it.

Ask yourself that question.

 

Correct, and you have to consider the context. Had he been one person that showed up with a concealed weapons making threats...he would have just been tasered and hauled off.

At the point the building was breached, it was just a handful of officers inside trying to keep things calm. Keep in mind, NOBODY inside that building (neither the Capitol police officers nor the elected officials barricaded in officers or then VP-Pence (who was being escorted through the underground tunnel to safety) had ANY reason to believe they would be rescued. They were seeing exactly what we all were seeing as it happened and they knew that many of the officers outside were badly injured and then POTUS Trump was ignoring their calls to engage back-up. VP Pence engaged back-up when Trump wouldn't do it but that caused a delay because it is actually the President's job to authorize that.

For them, time probably stood still for however long until his people convinced him to talk to the rioters and vacate the premises. He didn't even want to do it which is why it took several hours.

It does. I don't believe that most people even think about the fact (or I haven't heard it anywhere) that not only did the POTUS lie to them about Pence's authority, ignore the fact they angrily mob attacked all those police officers and breached the building...

They were obviously convinced that their President would have their backs. Very, very few people are bold enough to straight up attack a uniformed officer. Sure, that might happen if somebody is fleeing and one-on-one but even that is not standard. So, I was stunned that enough people in that crowd were totally on board with that and the only way that makes any sense is for them to feel some degree of "protection" from Trump.

I would be heartbroken if I did something that bold for someone and they turned their backs on me. Luckily, I'm calm by nature (and some of it is my severe PTSD. I don't freak out in a crisis) but I tried to put myself in their shoes but nobody on this planet is worth me going to prison. I would kill to protect my children but I'm not going to beat the hell out of cops and threaten people, especially not on camera! I'm honestly shocked by that (still!) and I've wondered why there weren't some people trying to help the cops in that scenario. The whole thing is just crazy.

Of everybody, my heart goes out to the fallen officers and the kids of the criminals convicted. This was completely avoidable. It's a sad state of affairs for sure.

 

Duly noted. Thanks for expounding on that. Until now, I wasn't aware you weren't cheering for him.

I believe I prefaced that part of my posts with saying I am not aware of you saying any of those things. I'm exhausted (which is not an excuse) but I don't recall any of your posts at the moment. I'm sure I've read some because I love your avatar so it stands out to me but my brain is sleepy right now.

I agree with you that he didn't use those words specifically.

However, I believe his words leading up to that day and on that day were not harmless. He was our POTUS and people listen to their POTUS. I still paid attention even when he made it no secret that he was only president to his supporters. And, after people got sick and/or died from ingesting disinfectants (something he also never explicitly instructed anyone to do) I believe he should have become more, not less, careful about what he says in public.

I turned my back on politics after an internship in college that I absolutely hated. I wanted to be as far away from that as I could be and stay on the planet. I just started paying attention in the last few years because I have children. As a result, I don't have the same frame of reference or information you apparently have and many people have that have been paying attention.

With that said, however, I don't really care about the tit-fot-tat bickering. We're all Americans and I think we should work harder on not finding ways to place blame but resolve at least some topics that shouldn't be partisan. I'm not exactly sure why more of us don't make that effort so I find myself having to walk away for a bit every now and then because the intense hatred hurts too much.

Therefore, I think Trump should be facing charges for what he said and whatever ganders you know that did the same dumb@ss stuff should face the music for their dumb@ss stuff too. I don't care what letter is behind somebody name, their skin color, religion, sexuality, etc.. If you break our laws, you face our judicial system for that or get the hell out of our country. We don't anymore dead weight and especially not in D.C..

No, of course I don't think that. (That made me LOL).

I wrote:

If the Capitol police officers inside the building did not do what they did and *any* of our elected officials had been taken hostage, hurt or killed, the seat of our government would be in jeopardy. ​

My point wasn't clear. I meant to convey that if the mob had breached the building and caused harm (or death) to MULTIPLE officials, there would be some hiccups. There would have been NO back-up because (1) hundreds of cops were injured outside and Trump wouldn't engage the National Guard.

Police officers...

Carry and are trained to use weapons which were basically useless in that mob attack.
Are trained in hand-to-hand combat but that's only if one is facing one or possible two people and the skill levels.
Police officers that work on the street are typically younger, healthier and quicker than older cops.
The Capitol officers were not on guard when the mob approached the Capitol which caused a delayed response to the imminent threat.

Conversely, our elected officials...I don't know but I'm going to take some educated guesses...

*All* of them don't carry and aren't trained to use weapons.
*All* of them are not trained in hand-to-hand combat.
*All* of them are not young or healthy or faster than some of the people we saw in that mob.
*All* of them WERE on guard because they witnessed what was happening outside the building.

It's just the law of averages at that point and the only advantage they had over the cops outside is that they were scared. The officers inside getting them to various offices and steering the crowd away from those locations is the ONLY thing that probably saved many of their lives.

-----------------
Further, not directly related but I want to say it anyway...again, I'm *newish* to delving into this stuff but I find it annoying when people freak out about little things (or things I consider to be insignificant. I just don't the energy to go off the rails constantly).

For examples, since joining this forum and a few other politically-based ones...

* People went crazy when Cruz and his family took a flight out of TX during their freak winter.
* People went batsh!t crazy because Biden wasn't running around campaigning.
* People were upset about (some guy that took paternity leave when he and his husband adopted or a surrogate had a baby).

I would totally understand that before television and telephones were invented but the whole damn world just proved that most of us can work from anywhere during the past two years of this pandemic. Why do people need these people to be in their faces constantly?

Therefore, if ONE elected official getting his family somewhere warm or another one hiding out in a basement or another one wanting to spend time with his new baby....why does it seem to strange for me to get the idea people would lose their minds if one or more of our elected officials were harmed, kidnapped or killed by the rioters? Many of them are still in trauma therapy and NONE of them were harmed or killed.

Sure, the government won't topple because of it, but to insinuate that "the show must go on" and will...without some bumps in the road doesn't seem realistic to me at this point in time.

Thanks for your thorough response and civility. Yeah, we disagree. I think Trump has set our country back decades. It's going to take a minute to heal.

I hope you get some zzzs for me too. I'm tired but I have insomnia (and two furry lunatics that love to run and jump all night for some reason that only makes sense to them .

 

I made a valid comparison. One which democrats have failed to address.

 

They gave him obstruction instead because it was the easier charge. You don't get obstruction for intimidating witnesses without threating them o wise one.

 

Nope, you haven't proved it.

 

When you get to the point that you refuse that CNN and MSNBC are reporting it, there is no value in proving anything to you because you would rather falsify a claim than accept the truth.
Its what leftist do.

 

So you agree that you claim
if you ask for a speedy trial and are denied, the case can be thrown out
is nonsense.

Since I never claimed you said that, where in the world did you get that idea?
Or is this just a deflection trying to cover up you previous post?

 

Giggle all you'd like Obstruction landed: For intimidating witnesses, based on the threat testified to by his son.

 

Obstruction is a misdemeanor charge. You don't ignore a felony charge for communicating threats to a minor because its easier.
Don't make me laugh out loud

 

What did they get capone for again?

 

And they still didn't say "savvy genius".

 

When you've got him dead to rights on other charges? Sure you do. Its called a pile on. You don't introduce a charge you'll have a harder time proving when you're stacking that many sure things together.
There is no need to work that hard, the multiple minor charges will be stacked consecutive IE you serve time for first one, then another, then another, then another. Not all together.

 

Obstruction of Justice - witness tampering through threat of force - is in fact a felony, punishable by up to 20 years.

Title 18, sec 1512 (2) (c)

 

So why have some people being sitting in jail without trial for more than a year for things like aggravated trespassing.

 

The Jan 6 defendants don't have an issue with bail compared to "everyone else." Only about 5% are held without bail, compared to the 75% of everyone else held without bail.

And, everyone else was confined to their cells and therefore "solitary" too, due to covid. Since relaxation of measures they have 5.5 hours a day outside, as well as tablets for watching news, films, etc., TV and so on.

 

The clock starts ticking from when someone is charged. Many things don't count towards that time - things which are unavoidable and necessary. However, when the remaining time allowed to bring a case to trial is exceeded for no reason, or no good reason, the defendent can file a motion to dismiss.

 

Question for the board. Does the guilty verdict on obstructing an official proceeding (the certification of Biden as prez) have implications for the Orange Insurrectionist? Henry Tarrio, the former national chairman of the Proud Boys, has just been indicted for
conspiring to corruptly obstruct, influence and impede an official proceeding, a reference to the certification of the electoral college vote. Tarrio wasn't even at the Capital building during the riot.
One could argue Trump was involved in a parallel conspiracy with folks like John Eastman.

 

Tampering with a witness? Like when the DOJ tries to coerce a witness?

“I NEVER Felt Threatened by My Dad! – The DOJ Wanted Me to Say That!” – MUST READ — Shocking Statement by January 6th Daughter Called by DOJ Prosecution

The Department of Justice prosecutors manipulatively walked back their decision to subpoena another child of January 6th defendant (Peyton) Guy Reffitt

“I never felt threatened by my Father,” Peyton Reffitt (the teen daughter of the defendant) told us outside the courthouse in Washington DC. “It hurts me so much that they are saying that. My Dad has never touched us once in our lives. The only way he disciplined us was through yelling and sometimes even pretending he was mad. He was beaten by his Dad as a kid and is against that- he would never hurt us.”

https://rumble.com/vws8yj-i-never-f...ays-daughter-of-j6-defendant-guy-reffitt.html





https://rumble.com/vws9hh-brother-o...bout-fbi-and-doj-manipulating-his-family.html



https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-january-6th-daughter-called-doj-prosecution/

 

According to Sarah Reffitt, the 24 year old sister of Peyton and Jackson:

“All the evidence and recordings the prosecutors presented were taken out of context. “For example, when Dad said “traitors get shot”, he was NOT threatening my siblings! He was absolutely not talking about my brother and sister like the DOJ, media and prosecution keep implying. He said that in the context of a different discussion and they keep manipulating it. He was telling us about how people in certain countries can act like traitors. We are my Dad’s whole life and the only thing he cares about is us. I love and miss my Dad so much.”

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-january-6th-daughter-called-doj-prosecution/

https://rumble.com/vws821-interview-with-nicole-reffitt-wife-of-first-j6-defendant.html

 

The next thing the left will do is lash out against her.
Watch what happens.