The Texas shooting shows the futility of arming teachers

And round and round it goes. How quickly the 19 young children are forgotten and the arguments return to type.

 

You're simply conflating two entirely different things. Once focused on gang violence, the other, security for unarmed victims of schools today. We have to try harder. Taking guns from folks obviously does't solve this.

 

The problem will end when shooters know that they are very likely to be gunned down in the act by an armed citizen. This incident has proved once again that armed police are too little and too late.

When will they ever learn?

 

Even in an urban killing field like Baltimore there is no armed security for their schools.

When will they ever learn?

 

Do you need an atomic bomb? Do you have any reasonable use for an atomic bomb?


And I'm not defending armed lunatics; not at all. I'm saying the lunatics don't get to play the game. You can't prevent them from becoming armed if they are loose, even fists and feet are weapons, and actually kill more people each year by that means than all rifles of all kinds combined. So- If you can't respect the rules and rights of others, you don't get to play the game at all. Virtually everyone of these mass killers has been sending the message of their intent over and over- and been ignored. They usually aren't invisible beforehand.
Surely you are smart enough to realize that if you take that factor, the violent hostile person out of the formula, the problems end.

If you had a society of one million self-regulating, responsible people- there would be virtually no crime, no violence, and the number of guns, knives or weapons would make no difference.
If 5% of those people are not self-regulating and responsible- you have all kinds of crime and violence. It's people, not guns that are responsible for violence.

Remove the guns, you still have violent people and an endless supply of things that can become weapons, and then law-abiding people are disarmed so that violence is safer for the thugs to act violently.
The criminals actually like that idea. The Buffalo shooter actually researched the control carry conditions and chose his target to have the least risk to himself from armed people.

Remove the violent people, you have- peace and safety.
WHY would you choose to remove the guns instead of the violent people?

 

Don't look to Chicago for any help... Lori seems to have reserved the Police to be her private security force....

 

Once upon a time, society used to deal harshly with its deviants. Democrats seem to want more of them to inflict yet more harm and damage to society. Because for some reason, they feel like the regular folks just deserve it. So, they ensure that the crazy can't be confined, that punishment doesn't exist for the most egregious of crimes, except for those that challenge their power. Then, it's off to the gulags...

Angry people or crazy people are the cause of gun violence. An inanimate object cannot be responsible for itself. Perhaps the knowledge that society will no longer coddle the criminal class would do a great deal to lower crime and gun violence in the nation.

 

Who said: "Never let a crisis go to waste."?

 

The police have been outnumbered and outgunned in Chicago for decades.
Whenever the criminal element every really wants to deal with Lori there will not be enough cops to protect her. She acts accordingly.

"CBS 2’s Roseanne Tellez investigates what went wrong with the warning system.

“We heard the conductor of the train yelling at them, saying the police are coming,” said a witness, riding the Red Line during the Saturday night incident.
The red line rider, who does not want to be identified, gave CBS 2 News pictures and video of police questioning youth on a train Saturday night."

"As many as 150 youth hopped off at the Chicago red line stop. According to Alderman Hopkins, it caused major chaos between there and the Water Tower.

“They started immediately making a lot of noise, shouting and yelling, pushing pedestrians,” said Hopkins. “So clearly this was designed to frighten people and intimidate people.”

Hopkins says some of the young people stole cell phones and purses, and says with so many cameras in the area, police should have seen what was about to happen that night.

“We’re going to do some internal review and figure out what went wrong so that the patrol officers aren’t caught with no warning like they were Saturday night,” said Hopkins. “They were vastly outnumbered by a significant margin.”

CBS NEWS, Mob Of Teens Allegedly Responsible For Water Tower Brawl Saturday Night, By Roseanne TellezMay 8, 2018.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/05...onsible-for-water-tower-brawl-saturday-night/

 

Armed professionals didn't stop mass murderers at either Columbine or Parkland.

The cop on campus exchanged fire with one of the gun at Columbine but he wasn't wearing his glasses and had little hope of hitting him.

The officer at Parkland ran and hid.

People seem to have the mistaken idea that just because people are armed and trained that somehow they will automatically "march toward the shots" and act heroically to stop armed murderers.

The won't. Having a gun and knowing how to use it won't make you a well disciplined hero.

 

Mass Shooting Facts to Shut Down Your Liberal Sister and Her Annoying, Man-Bunned, Non-Binary ‘Boy’ Friend.

“Anyone engaging in this sort of boring drivel doesn’t really want to stop the problem of mass shootings. They want to take our guns and have Republicans voted out. Gun-grabbers have no problem standing on the bodies of dead people, even kids, to get what they want.”

Witness one Beta, er, Beto O’Rourke.

It appears that the police, shamefully, did not act on their training. This is generally reflective of their leadership and that will need to be gotten to the bottom of firmly dealt with. And that will require a review of body cams and hard truths faced.

But, your point that arming with inadequate training and/or character can be useless is certainly true.

While this was initially stated, it appears to be fake news. The police department has been combative and far less than forthcoming. That needs to be broken through, we are going to learn every detail and they will be held to account.

 

These questions are irrelevant.

It is not required to provide the real reasons why I am getting a gun.

You claim that guns are safe because they are inanimate objects, this definition also applies to an atomic bomb.

So I expect you to explain why I can't have one.

Not true.

Because you can't guarantee the sanity of a gun owner forever.

The gun may have been purchased when everything was fine and may be used years later in a mass shooting.

The common denominator of all American mass shooters is that they are all gun nuts.

That's an argument that doesn't hold water.

Because every Western nation that has taken drastic gun control measures has seen an incredible decrease in the number of mass shootings and a marked decrease in their homicide rate.

There are so many guns in circulation in the US that you can't imagine what it would be like if their number was drastically reduced.

 

@Arkanis

Looks like the truth coming out has made your thread slowly crumble on a foundation of lies

 

However, it works everywhere else.

 

They would not need to shoot back if crazy people didn't have access to guns.

 

Are you going to blame them for taking cover when they were shot?

The police had families too.

Because obviously, the fact that they had the reflex to want to save their lives flies in the face of the Conservative argument that 'good guys with guns' stop crazy people with guns.

Well, it doesn't.

 

You really think there would be mass gun murders in Austria if they allowed more people to buy guns whenever they want?

I don't.

 

Why ?

 

culture and history

 

Your thread has fallen apart. False premise it was based on has now been exposed.

 

We're not Australia. Maybe you should worry more about your own country's politics than ours.

 

If the door had been locked, as it should have been, he could have had 200 AR-15s and still not have been able to kill those kids. And NOW we know that it took the police an HOUR to storm the school/classroom, so if they had done their jobs properly, it's entirely possible those 19 people would still be alive today.

I won't blame you if you haven't heard about the hour that the police basically sat around and did nothing (except maybe arrest, pepper spray, and tasered parents for, what, complaining too loudly I guess), because that's literally breaking news at this hour, but to realize your attention should likely be better spent on wondering why the door was not locked than what weapons the shooter had (which he would not have been able to use if the door was locked).

Also, it turns out the story of the shooter being engaged by an armed security guard is not true, either. So that raises the question of if such a thing had actually happened, instead of being erroneously reported, would we even be talking about this right now?

 

I trust you to use every possible excuse to avoid talking about the real problem: the proliferation of guns.

There will still be 3-4 killings per year in elementary and high schools, we may increase police patrols around schools, we may provide funds to hire armed guards, we may install armored doors... but in the end, nothing will be done to counter the real evil that plagues this country: the proliferation of guns.

 

Police tactical training in a situation like that is for teams of two or more to actively engage the shooter until the threat is stopped. If they are not willing to do that, then they are not fit to wear the badge and uniform.

Good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns all the time, but not with the guns holstered, out in the parking lot, disengaged from the shooter.

 

I thought that guns were used to avoid relying on the police....

I have been told by pro 2A that the police aren't obliged to protect people's lives.

Doesn't that apply here?

I understand.

They don't want to be surprised by the shooter either.

In fact, you need an ideal situation under ideal conditions in an ideal environment.

Now, when all these elements are present, a good guy with a gun has a chance.