Why Do You Keep Believing

I'm a half fool. I accept what government says whenever it is confirmed in the private sector. Otherwise I assume lies. Why? Because of all the lies.

 

Trust but verify should be the position for anything, no matter the source IMO.

 

I know the answer to your question. People believe known liars in government because they have been conditioned to do so over generations.

As Dresden James noted in the last century, when a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.

Edward Bernays, the nephew of Freud, was hired by Woodrow Wilson to manipulate the public perception. People believe lies because they've been conditioned to do so.

 

Don't you often cite Russian propaganda as fact?

I guess you only trust certain governments.

 

Fair trade? Are you serious? That’s what all the fighting has been about in the past two decades as countries that have tried to abandon the privatized dollar are attacked. “Overseeing protection?” You mean the mafia like dollar protection racket you’ve been exporting? Humans were here millions of years before America was invented and if you go back even a couple of centuries, your ancestors weren’t American because America didn’t exist. Before America it was the British Empire saying the same thing.

 

No I only cite what I believe is fact and with an explanation of why. The 'why' is the important bit.

 

The U.S. knew that Iraq had chemical weapons because they had the receipts for selling them to Iraq. They just didn't know Iraq had destroyed or otherwise eliminated them. The other falsehoods perpetrated by the Bush League profited a certain group and totally raped the rest of us.

 

You are absolutely correct that I don't trust certain governments, especially western governments.

I am a firm believer in what Mark Twain said in defining patriotism: Patriotism means supporting your country all the time, but its government only when it deserves it.

Are YOU able to discern between this country and its government?

 

My point was more about the governments you do trust. You are the thing you were disparaging in the post I previously quoted.

But it's hip and cool to not trust the US, but to gobble up everything Putin puts out, so i guess that means you're not a sheep.

 

Well, that's the response I expected. You, conveniently, missed the part about where we would be otherwise.

 

I don't gobble up everything Putin puts out, or that the Kremlin puts out. They are 2 separate entities you know.

But I've known for years that Putin is far more intelligent than any occupant of the White House during my time on this planet.

I've also known since my time in Vietnam in 1970 that my government is notorious for its mendacity.

 

Your admiration for Putin is well established.

 

We'd be where we were before America was invented and without it. Trading, discovering, for thousands of years. We manage withput the British Empire, America's decline won't be a loss.

 

It isn't for me. Federal government has earned a special level of distrust from me. Otherwise I generally give the benefit of the doubt.

 

So you think information from the Federal government is more likely to be false than truthful?

So over half of everything put out by the Federal government is a lie?

I don't think assuming everything they say is a lie makes you less likely to be mislead.

 

I’m with Russia in the Ukrainian war. Doesn’t mean I’m a Putin supporter, although he’s done more for Russia in 20 years than 50 years of western politicians have done for the west put together.

I don’t agree with NATO advancement up to the borders of a nuclear power. It’s very likely he’ll get his border zone and keep NATO missile bases away from Russian borders. I’d want to see this war localized and not spread and turn into WW3.Wasn't Afghanistan and the Middle East a lesson in too much Gung-Ho?

 

It's much easier when you're a dictator with absolute power, including over life and death.

It's a silly misconception that having missiles in Ukraine is substantively worse than having them anywhere else in East Europe. Our involvement in the Mid-East was about oil not gung-ho; our troops never wanted to be there, but did their best anyway. We should have never been there, it has nothing to do with Osama, and every thing with money to be made by Cheney/Halliburton.

 

Generally one would ask for evidence. Though in that case I didn't care whether he had WMDs. Sovereign nations have that right.

That's been documented. It's not a he-said-she-said scenario. Though they're not the primary targets.

Oh please, that doesn't even make sense because Russia doesn't care if they kill civilians, so what kind of shield would that be? The Ukrainians don't have the luxury to locate their bases in rural areas away from people. Urban areas give them an advantage. They are not using civilians as human shields, they are doing what it takes to keep fighting and amnesty believes they could do more to protect civilians. It's war though. If you don't win, nothing else matters.

It's shocking that Ukraine has done as well as it has. Depends on your definition of "winning." It's their country being destroyed, so in that regard they automatically lose. But staying in the fight longer than Putin thinks its worth the cost? That remains to be seen. Putin likely does not have the luxury of sacrificing millions of Russians like Stalin.

Who cares? They're not who was in charge. America has white nationalists too, but we're not controlled by them... well now that Trump isn't president at least.

Your post is a case in point, lol.

 

You didn’t care whether Iraq had WMD’s, just get in there and destroy the place, right?

Of course civilians die in war. Your point is?

Russians don’t care if they kill civilians is your opinion. If they had gone in at full throttle as NATO did in the Middle East, you’d have seen a million dead. The fact is that the Ukrainians are using human shields, it’s not my opinion, its fact. An unpleasant fact for those that thought they were knights in shining armour, but it was bound to come out in due course.

Of course the US has white nationalists, but they’re not running around ethnically cleansing anyone.

My last point in the op was very telling. “Personal beliefs and opinions are not necessarily facts and are often far removed from reality.”

 

Ukraine borders Russia, that’s the difference between having them in Easter European countries and on the Ukraine/Russia border. What would you say if Mexico suddenly invited Russia to place missiles targeting the US on its borders?

Definitely it was about oil in the Middle East, but you see the same Gung-Ho about Ukraine now as you did then. Just a thought, but you do know that Russia is another major oil producer? Think about that while you’re thinking about the Middle East.

 

So are you suggesting that no NATO countries already border Russia, and that Ukraine would have been the first one?

 

No, apart from Belarus, Ukraine would have been the last one and completed the encirclement. It wasn't and isn't going to happen.

 

I would say Mexico phuked up.

That's horseshit. You don't know how our military works, it's VERY professional. We are defending an independent nation against tyranny in Ukraine. Only when boots are on the ground and interdependence is crucial does "gung-ho" come into play. Except Russia walks like an enemy, talks like an enemy and has consistently behaved like an enemy ... even when tRaitor tRump was kissing Putin's ass.

 

The question was, what would you say if Mexico allowed Russia missiles on it's border targetting the US.

 

I said, "Mexico phuked up".