Why Do You Keep Believing

"If Russia agreed to host gay march parades and let Wall Street in to plunder its economy"... You were talking about Russia.

That makes no sense, but there is really nothing underlying your thinking.

His initial attack from the North was worse than a failure. What we thought was a second rate military suddenly looked 3rd rate. That's remarkable, for it's failure, for the way it revealed Putin's ambitions, and his recklessness.

 

The stuff coming out now are pure beliefs. Russia’s going to attack other countries. He’s raiding the Ukraine economy. He’s raping and pillaging his orc army through Ukraine … It’s not happening, he’s not even called up full conscription. It’s this kind of nonsense based on beliefs that a minority of you have bought into and echo’s that of the same paranoia of monsters and WMD’s in the Middle East and a deadly plague of flu that’s going to wipe us all out. It’s the American paranoia rising to the surface again. If the media told you Putin was employing aliens from Mars to fight for him, many of you would believe it.

Looking at the gains in Crimea and the Donbass, I'd say he's slow, but it's not a failure. The failure is that Ukraine is losing every battle it fights.

 

Putin is not a good guy; quite selling him as one.

You've "planted" yourself as neutral, which was an obvious lie from your first post.

 

You started correctly showing the problem, but you are not giving any solution and making the problem even more confused. Lets try to analyze it:

Humans lie. Politicians lie, girlfriends, boyfriends, wife and husbands lie, scientists lie, preachers lie and even children lie – this is a fact.
I don’t want to analyze if the statement “I had the best orgasm in my life” is true or false – lets concentrate on politics.
So to whom to believe: one politician is saying – there was an election fraud and another there was no election fraud?
Baloney Detection Kit by Carl Sagan tries to help us:
https://www.themarginalian.org/2014/01/03/baloney-detection-kit-carl-sagan/

If we are talking about the Russian invasion of Ukraine lets think:
Russians are blaming “Ukrainian Nazis” – who is Ukrainian Nazi?
From Nazism definition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Did Ukrainian ‘Nazis’ had disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system? There is no evidence. Actually Ukrainian ‘Nazis’ follow orders of Jewish parliamentary president.

Ukrainian ‘Nazis’ accepted Jewish president, not sure if they talk about use of eugenics into its creed, but there are many parties, even in Russia which are incorporating fervent antisemitism, anti-communism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_of_National_Revolutionary_Action
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Brotherhood

Ukrainians are Slavs and not Arian, and I never saw Ukrainian ‘Nazis’ claiming they are inferior to Germans.
So why Russians call some Ukrainians “Nazis’ and not fascist, which is much better definition? The answer is very simple – the real Nazis were close friends of Russian in 1938-1941:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany–Soviet_Union_relations,_1918–1941

Russia and Nazi Germany in 1939 together attacked Poland and together celebrated victory parade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk

By calling Ukrainian fascist – ‘Nazis’ – Russia want pretends they always were anty-Hitler while Ukrainians supported Hitler.

Did Ukrainian support Hitler? Yes – there were Ukrainian unit which supported Nazi Germany, but also there were Ukrainians who fought against Germans with Russian army.

And how about Russians – did they fought together with Germans? Yes, there were Russians who fought together with Germans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

And the question – who should we trust – the Western Media or Russian media?
Facts:

In Russia calling Russian invasion a war is a crime punishable up to 15 years in jail.
In Russia contradicting the official government version of war is a crime.

In the West (at least in the US) we can support Ukraine, support Russia or claim that the war is a Jewish/Khazar conspiracy.
Which media we should trust more? In Russia we MUST trust the official media, in the West – it is up to us.

 

I'll criticize both sides when needed, not read from an indoctrinated script.

The thing that’s missing here is why Russia attacked. When you understand that, what is happening now takes a back seat. You can’t treat a nuclear power with the same arrogance as the west did in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. You can’t try to surround it with foreign NATO armies and stick your tongue out and say, what are you going to do about it? You can’t blatantly try to destroy its economy, or fund and train Nazi militias on its doorstep after it lost 26 million dead in living memory fighting the same characters. Now Russia has come out fighting there’s gasps of shock? The shock is they didn’t do so earlier.

In 1964, the US told the then USSR there would be war if they placed missiles in Cuba. It’s now the same thing in reverse. Russia isn’t attacking Europe, it’s creating a buffer zone between it and NATO in Ukraine and NATO is powerless to stop it.

 

Whoa! First, in the lead up to Putin's invasion Ukraine offered to NOT join NATO as appeasement. Two, NOBODY has said anything about placing Nukes Ukraine, not the U.S., not Ukraine, not anyone. So that argument just falls flat; it just more of your Putin's a good guy appeasement nonsense.

 

Ukraine was inching towards joining NATO and the EU, but that’s not the point. NATO was already in Ukraine in 2014, arming and training its military and militias. Do you think Ukraine would have forbidden NATO to put its missiles, nuclear or not on Ukraine’s border with Russia? Nothing to do with Putin appeasement. NATO went too far and was stopped and is now reduced to keeping a safe distance militarily whilst sticking its tongue out.

 

There is no evidence that indicates NATO missiles were going into Ukraine. It's a red herring issue, it takes less than a minute to fly a missile across Ukraine from ... ?Moldova?. You're desperate to cover Putin's ass and there just isn't any excuse for HIS invasion.

 

It's possible there's an error of oversimplification - of conflation.

People might think, you are either with America or against America, and take Joe Biden to be the voice of all Americans.

Conflating and then dividing up opinions in this way is a fallacy.

I support America but I do not believe in, trust, nor support Joe Biden, especially when he lies.

Does that make me a Russian spy?

 

It's hard to know what is true. I've heard people claim the US is shipping missiles to Ukraine where we have no control over what they are used for or whom they are sold to.

That makes no sense but there are people who are saying it.

 

It makes you someone that watches to much Faux News.

BINGO!

 

Again, NATO was arming and training the Ukraine army and militias and Ukraine wouldn’t have allowed them to station missiles in their country? Of course it was going to happen, just as it has in all the former Eastern Block countries that joined NATO. I suppose you expected Russia’s Sevastapol Naval Base to just quietly go away as well?

In a way, a part of me feels sorry for Zelensky. He fell for the ‘You’re one of us’ and ‘we’ll protect you.’ When it came to it, they dumped him. Do you remember the shock on his face when he realized he’d been used? NATO was only interested in Ukraine to get closer to Russia, just as it has with all the other two bit Eastern countries that joined.

You’ve already had it explained why Russia invaded at #130. If you want to stick to the media script that’s up to you.

 

It looks we are living in different universes, let me describe what happened in my universe:

Russia collaborated militarily with Cuba from 1959, but the crisis started when Russia secretly deployed nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962. The US didn’t plan to annex any side of Cuba.

On 5 December 1994 in Budapest Russia signed memorandum: after Ukraine return nuclear arms to Russia, it prohibited the Russian Federation from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine "except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.".

Russia attacked Ukraine first time in 2014 when Ukrainians got rid of kleptocrat Yanukovitz who broke his promise to bring Ukraine closer to UE and NATO.
During Russia invasion in 2014 or 2022 there was not NATO missiles or major military units in Ukraine.

The US never signed any agreement promising to protect Cuba, so your comparison of Ukraine with Cuba is not valid in my universe.

Why Russia invaded Ukraine? There are two theories:

1. Russia invaded Ukraine from the same reason US would invade Canada if Canada joined a military pact with China.
2. Russian elites were afraid that democratic successful Ukraine will post a danger to Russian regime – Russian people will try to get rid of kletocratic regime.

Not sure which theory is true, I would put my bet on (2).


Was this war was preventable? I think yes, it was a failure of the US ruling elites who insisted Ukraine must be part on NATO – a policy created by American genius who tried in install democracy in Iraq. Here is the genius at his best:


So in my universe Russia in guilty of invading Ukraine and American elites, starting from Bush until Biden are guilty of stupidity.

 

So you say but provide no proof. #130 is more supposition presentented as fact. I stick to my accusation you're a Putin apologist.

 

Endlessly repeating that I’m a Putin apologist doesn’t refute what I said in post #130.

 

Lol…ah, the irony.
Why do you keep pushing Russian propaganda lies?

 

I think we got that one’s number already. No need to take his russian propaganda farm nonsense seriously.

 

You didn't say anything substantive in #130. Just more rationalizing of Putin's invasion.

 

These wasn't western media. It was done by lying Kremlin Trolls, trying to deny Ukraine's staatehood. Ukrainian nationalists aren't Nazis. They don't want to exterminate Jews and rule the world. They fight for freedom of ruZZian oppression.

Slava Ukraini - Death to Russia!

 

The answer is in the rationalization. That's the substantive part you're missing and explaining nothing yourself. That's the result of media indoctrination.

 

All you've done is lip off justifying Putin's aggression without any supporting link's.

 

Missiles and artillery pieces, what does it matter? 20+ biolabs operated by the US in Ukraine, what does it matter? The US has admitted all these things.

The US and NATO are the belligerent parties in this case. Russia is rightfully protecting its country and its interests. They have the moral high ground without doubt.

 

I don't need links and other people's opinions. I'm the source.

It’s like this. When people haven’t got personal knowledge they go to google. Google redirects them to the mainstream media and the media gives them the current propaganda. No thinking required, just repeat and if it’s wrong blame it on the opinion got from a third-party link.

That’s why the initial ‘there are no Nazi militias in Ukraine’ ended in silence. Something that was common knowledge for eight years. It then moves onto ‘Ukraine is winning.’ When it was pointed out that Ukraine was in fact losing every battle it fought, it then moved onto a big offensive which never happened. And so it continues.

Propaganda, opinions, beliefs … Just like the deadly plague of flu that was going to kill us all and the ice-caps melting nonsense that went before it.

 

TLDR and DGAS. Yes your your own source of Putin justifying BULLSHIT.

 

TLDR? DGAS? Is that Americanish language? When the beliefs end in reality don't forget Krispy told you.

Unless you get vaccinated you’re passing on the Covid flu to others
But I haven’t got the flu, how can I be passing it on?
You’re stupid and an anti-vaxxer!

Ukraine is going to win.
But they’re losing every battle they fight.
You’re a Putinist!

We’ve just sanctioned a major energy supplier, what are we going to do?
Don’t worry, we’re going to use green energy instead.
What green energy?
You’re a climate change denier!

It follows a well-worn path. Already Ukraine is becoming old news as we start to panic over a self-inflicted energy crisis. What will come next? A climate change lockdown with calls for governments to develop a vaccine to prevent us from using too much energy? Be very sure there will be more than one cheering for it.