There Are Only Two Genders: Even transgressors admit it

No one is trying to stop people from mutilating their own genitials. The debate is over whether we should do it to children or not.

 

That's right.

 

I was referring to the inability to support your position in your own words, plus the passive-aggressive terms you used to try to casually insult transgender people.

Because they obviously are. They clearly thought the statement on their placard supports their position in exactly the same way you do. You are their target audience. You're just both factually and logically wrong.

There is no debate about genitals defining gender. Nobody actually believes that "genitals define gender" but some people will either say they do or accuse their opponents on this issue (in either direction) of doing so. It's really just a simplistic attempt to distract from the complex realities of the issue (which don't realy favour either extreme).

So, I wasn't asking you to clarify what the placard means, I was asking you to clarify why you believe that statement is an accurate representation of reality. The key point you keep evading is that you've not shown anyone saying that "removing genitals affirms gender" and if that isn't the case, your entire position collapses back in to a pile of straw.

 

None of this has much to do with the OP or what I've said ...... and particularly what I (or the OP) didn't say. It's complete nonsense.

 

Gender is a SPECTRUM ergo there could be any number of them.

Here is a list of the PRIMARY genders and it is MORE than just TWO!

https://www.womenshealthmag.com/relationships/a36395721/gender-identity-list/

 

Oh FFS!

Genitals define SEX, not gender!

WHY is that so DIFFICULT to COMPREHEND?

 

Completely and utterly WRONG in ALL respects!

Transvestites do NOT use HRT!

Transpeople DO use HRT!

 

Religions MUTILATE the genitals of children ALL the time!

No one in the trans community is "mutilating" the genitals of children, that is 100% Xtofascist DISINFORMATION.

 

The OP is complete nonsense because it is based on a FALLACY!

 

I focused on exactly what I thought the OP is about. If you think I've misunderstood, maybe you need to explain yourself better.

To put my core question simply though; Do you have an example of anyone claiming that "removing genitals affirms gender"?

 

Post 112 has the question clearly. A lot more clearly than your "proof" in the OP.

 

That's not the trans contradiction. That is an opponent making a false claim about transgenders and calling it a contradiction. It's a massive strawman.

 

Feel free to show otherwise.

What debate there is, at least on the transgender side of things, is whether or not genitals define biological sex, not gender.

 

That would be incorrect. A transvestite is a cross dresser. A TV has a gender that runs in conjunction with their biological sex, as opposed to in contradiction to biologicals sex as it does with transgenders.

 

I have to say for most of us it’s quite simple to comprehend.

Looking at the OP again — the sign says “If genitals don’t define gender, how does removing them affirm it?”. I guess @Thingamabob doesn’t understand the context of ‘affirm’ in relationships to transgenders.

When a person talks about ‘gender affirmation’ they are referring to the process an individual goes through when they begin to live as their ‘authentic’ gender rather than the one that was presumed at birth’ This process of ‘gender affirmation’ includes social, medical, and legal affirmation — all or any.

Social affirmation can include coming out, wearing gender specific clothes, using names and pronouns that match ones ‘authentic’ gender.
Medical affirmation can include surgery and/or hormone therapy.
Legal affirmation can include name and gender change on documents.

So the sign used to start this thread to prove some point is basically wrong and obviously the holder of the sign has no clue what ‘affirm’ relates to. Removing one’s genitals if that is the choice helps affirm with the individual their own personal choice of gender. It’s not about changing sex and as already stated genitals define biological sex not gender.

So the point of this thread is basically a waste of time and just another thread being started to denigrate and put down the individual choices of people. It’s also a vehicle to educate those who don’t understand the basic difference between sex and gender and how to use terminology appropriately.

 

I trust your word completely on that. But this has become a matter of lack of comprehension. The OP placard spells it out perfectly: CONTRADICTION on behalf of the trans-whatevers and/but here the reaction is showboating the chip on their shoulder. You know what a contradiction is, right? That's what the OP placard is throwing in your/mine/everyone's face. Come on, you must be able to appreciate that.

If you ask me for examples of people who are afraid of flying my response will be the same. In other words, you know it as well as I do. If you think the point can only be accepted by sworn affidavits and wiretapped recordings (and that's all you are willing to accept) then maybe you should move along.

 

OK, I've read post #112 . What do you want to do now?

 

As I said, I've never run across this before. Of course they could be opening themselves up for trouble by the use of gender not sex or biological sex, given the shift in the word. I also noted that they have a unisex changing room, which in turn contradicts where others (not necessarily you) have claimed that children should not be exposed to the genitals of opposite sex adults. Aside from being exposed to that of their opposite sex parent, they will be exposed to any others who are in there as well.

 

Yes, it is.

You’re the one making the accusation.

And everyone “on the transgender side of things” agrees with that, right?

A ‘Mustang’ is also a ‘Ford’ and a ‘homosexual’ is also a ‘gay’.

 

How much time do you plan on 'wasting' here?

I started this thread myself so is your comment a personal accusation?

 

There needs to be a debate about that and sports participation.

 

There needs to be debate about that and several other related subjects but this ain't the place for it. If you start a thread on it I'll contribute my opinion there.

 

I obviously understand the alleged contradiction the placard is presenting. What I am stating is that it isn't based on reality. It is an over simplified strawman argument. There is no contradiction in reality because, while most (rational) people accept that genitals don't define gender, they also don't believe that simply removing genitals "affirms" gender. There is a wide and diverse range of procedures and practices transgender people go though, socially, psychologically, medically and surgically, to "affirm their gender" as the placard puts it. Every individual will use a different combination of those things, some including genital surgical alterations and some not. I guarantee that there are exactly zero transgender people whose transition consisted of just having their genitals removed because they know all too well that doesn't define gender.

I didn't ask for sworn affidavits or recordings, just simple examples. I could easily find examples online of various people describing their fear of flying, that of people close to them or medical professionals explaining treatment and management of it. It's not definitive proof but it would support the position that the situation exists. If you are asserting that there is a general attitude among transgender people that "removing genitals affirms gender", surely you should be able to find some kind of supporting evidence for that viewpoint.

If you actually cared to look, I expect you'd come across a whole load of counter examples first, of transgender people desiring much more than just surgery, not having surgery at all or discovering after surgery, that it didn't resolve their gender identity problems.

 

The debate may come down to, should cosmetic surgery be allowed for those under 18 with parental consent.

 

Not on this thread it won't.