We (OWS) Get To Stay!

Wow. That is the most articulate expression of the supposed OWS angst that I have heard to date. Even though I despise the pompous fool Grayson, he calmly laid it out there.

The problem I have is that I believe Grayson is projecting what he believes the movement to be all about..... and not what the reality of the actual participants are all about. Like so many other opportunists jumping onto the bandwagon, the lack of clarity and message is allowing many groups to also project what they believe the movement to be about. Some of these groups, like the white supremacists and the communist party are credibility killers.

 

I agree with you very much that they, the OWS, are not going about it the right way. Most of that, i believe is due to lack of leadership and organization. Beyond that, I understand why they are there and I agree with their anger and discontent of what is happening in america. As for Unions, I agree with you 100% and have made the same statement, as you have just made, in the past.
The unions are no different than corporations in that aspect. I always support individual liberteries over organizations and groups, I am consistent, at least in that, aspect.

I am more like Ron Paul, because I am not a part of the status quo. I am not sure of the stance the majority of OWS would have on this, so I can not speak for them but I try to avoid having a biased point of veiw, comformist thinking of ideology instead of individual thinking, and I avoid conforming to hypocrisy of the media's and societies's views. We must be skeptical of all things but above most, we should be skeptical of things that reaffirm what we want to believe. This important because, what we want to believe is not very often the truth.

To often we fall into the trap that we wish to believe well of the unions or corporations because they give us something that benifit us. We tend to ignore the bad and only pay attention to the things are good and help us continue our line of thinking instead allowing us to grow and learn the truths. This is human nature, and it take wisdom to realize and see when we are picking out facts that help our case at the cost of finding the truth.

 

.....on world tv and every front page on the planet.

 

So in translation, your advice to her is to conform and assimilate into the very system she believes needs to be changed? Hmmm......

 

That is exactly what troubles me. Adbusters, the guys who initially organized it, are funded by the Tides Foundation, which is funded by George Soros. MoveOn.org is also funded by Soros. ACORN is involved. And not only the unions, but many Socialist and Communist political parties as well. The whole thing is a controlled opposition movement, organized by the Wall Street status quo. These organizers all have one common goal: the prevention of true banking reform. Obviously many of the protesters are calling for the death of capitalism but they do not realize that capitalism has been dead in this country for almost a century (most of them probably don’t even know why they’re protesting). Controlled opposition always happens with large popular movements like this.

 

...Could you please explain the bolded point?

 

fiatt currency, too much government intervention, subsidies, etc....

 

Isn't George Soros part of the 1%?

What is his motive in funding all manner of left-wing causes?

He obviously has a plan. Does anyone know what it is?

 

He can't, it is nonsense gibberish pedaled by free market fanatics, who are under the mistaken impression that their theoretical version of what they believe capitalism should be like, has anything to do with the reality of capitalism. Capitalism does exist, and has existed for the last 100 years, despite what the good DR says. He simply does what many people on the right do, and describes the fictional concept of free market capitalism as the only form of capitalism, and then say anything that does not meet those criteria is not actually capitalism. Except that is nonsense, because capitalism is a real thing that sprung up organically. It is only what it is. Unlike Marxism it is not the result of deductive reasoning about what the world should be and will be, it is describes something that actually exists. It describes a system where in people with capital own all the stuff, and use that stuff to generate even more stuff and capital. That fits our system completely. What we have is crony capitalism, corporate capitalism, or whatever you want to call it, but what is undeniable is that IT IS capitalism.

 

Very cute but unfortunately I cannot judge each person as an individual as I do not know each and every American personally or you or Polly for that matter. What I do not appreciate is a mish mash of people who say everything is wrong but have no concrete alternatives. Poverty can never ever include internet access and a college education. What it may mean is less luxuries than one would like. Boo hoo hoo

There is nothing special in the american plight that the entire world does not experience.

 

As a TEA Party member who was against the Corporate Bank Bailouts before this "Occupy" crowd, I have been wondering the same thing. We were against Crony Capitalism while these people failed to offer support.

Where were you guys during the bailouts? You're late to the party. Did your professors tell you back then that the bail outs were a good thing?

I find this all amazing. I find the media coverage of it ridiculous and disingenuous.

 

I'm genuinely curious, do Tea Partiers or Occupiers (Occupants?) believe our economy would be better off today if we'd let the banks fail? If I remember correctly, the tenor in 2008-2009 was that the bailout was unsavory but necessary to prevent the financial system from collapsing. Isn't the real outrage in the lack of culpability following the bailout, not the bailout itself? It's an important distinction.

 

Also known as ' two cheeks of the same arse '

 

If it is a fad, it's a fad that should have started years ago.

http://www.kyoo.com/us-debt-debate

 

Well I agree with Benjamin Franklin (paraphrasing) that those who forgo freedom for security will get neither.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/25/free-speech-for-corporations

The result was not in much doubt after the justices heard the case. The government lawyer defending the statute was asked: If movies financed by corporations may be banned because they express opinions on candidates, how about books?

“It’s a 500-page book, and at the end it says, ‘So vote for X,’ the government could ban that?” asked Chief Justice John Roberts Jr. Replied the Justice Department attorney, “Well, if it says ‘vote for X,’ it would be express advocacy and it would be covered by the pre-existing Federal Election Campaign Act provision.”

If the corporation wanted to publish such a book, he continued, “we could prohibit the publication of the book using corporate treasury funds.”


So it's pretty simple. You are either on the side that wants to ban books or you are not.

You guys are the banners.

 

Cause wanting reasonable reform concerning campaign finance is the same as banning movies? The idea that a corporation directly finances a politician who is at the time, or after elected charged with regulation of said corporation is something that should be illegal. Because I like that idea of campaign finance reform, just as I like the idea of anti trust, anti collusion, and anti monopoly laws, if that makes me a "banner" than a banner be I.

 

If you don't know me or poly, you can ask what we believe on something before you assume we believe the same thing as the few you heard or saw on tv.

Most of these people are asking for jobs, their rights back as individuals, and to have a equal say in thier government.

I agree that jobs is not an easy task, but the rest is pretty much self explainatory.

What luxuries are you talking about? Since when is not having a government bailout of corporations a luxury. I don't see anyone carrying a sign that says give me a mercedes.

What do you mean?

 

No jobs, then make your own job and become self employed. I've done it 2 times in 2 different industries successfully, it aint hard. People have to stop expecting other people to do the work. Camping out in a park causing a nuisance isnt doing work, its having a holiday. I hope you guys are good campers and clean up your mess or perhaps youz will expect someone else to do that too.

 

Not everyone has a skill too or has the ability or knowlege to start their own business. People also fail more often then they succeed in starting one. Some of these people need honest labor jobs while others have talents elsewhere.

I don't think they should stay the night there or create nuisance. They are losing the respect of everyone and no one is going to listen to their concerns or take them serously after such disrespect to public property and the private businesses that are trying to make a living around that area.

They are not hurting the people that they are even angry or upset at. They are hurting honest folk in those areas trying to make a living. They should make their statement and then go home.

 

There is always work to be done - unskilled work is work.

How about they start by cleaning up?

Yes they are not hurting anyone who counts.

banks are not people with feelings anyway.

the only way is to make change from the inside.

 

Monied interests buying politicians steals my LIBERTY AND MY SECURITY!! Therefore the idea that stopping that practice is in any way related to Franklin's quote is nonsensical beyond imagination. In fact, go actually read some Franklin, and you will find he agrees with ME NOT YOU. Jefferson as well. Madison as well. They all saw the destructive nature of money on the political system. They all understood how money could be used to corrupt the process. In our modern system money has corrupted the process to an extraordinary amount, and yet you want to steal the liberty AND security of 310 million people? For what purpose?

 

its been stolen already... purpose? To feed the top .05%.

The movement will co-opted by the democrats... just like the teaparty was co-opted by the republicans

 

I do not blame you for protesting about jobs, but are you aware that Obama is salivating about tying his Jobs bill to the OWS movement? However, Obama and congress on October 12 passed a heavier trade agreement that will hurt any hope of more jobs in the United States. Actually it was started by Bush and opposed by labor, but Obama sure had no trouble of getting it pushed through Congress last week. They are all quite happy with the little trade deal up there on the hill. See Obama grinning ear to ear as he runs for re-election in his bus, saying it's all about jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-pn-trade-deals-votes-20111012,0,5713095.story

Congress has passed free-trade agreements with Panama, South Korea and Colombia, overriding objections from liberal Democrats to advance a key priority for both the White House and congressional leaders.

Backers have billed the deals as job generators that will open up major markets to American businesses and level the playing field for workers. The agreements, originally negotiated by the Bush administration, faced firm opposition from labor groups, progressives and lawmakers from the Rust Belt protective of U.S. manufacturers.

The jobs issue is more contentious. Using one common assumption, that every $1 billion of exports generates 5,500 jobs, administration officials estimate that the Korea pact, by far the most important of the three, will “support” about 70,000 jobs. But that’s not the same as net new jobs for the American economy, because the trade agreements also will boost imports of goods from Korea.

 

I do not blame you guys for protesting about jobs, but are you aware that Obama is salivating about tying his Jobs bill to the OWS movement? However...... Obama and congress on October 12 passed a heavier trade agreement that will hurt any hope of more jobs in the United States. Actually it was started by Bush and opposed by labor, but Obama sure had no trouble of getting it pushed through Congress last week. They are all quite happy with the little trade deal up there on the hill. See Obama grinning ear to ear as he runs for re-election in his bus, saying it's all about jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-pn-trade-deals-votes-20111012,0,5713095.story

Congress has passed free-trade agreements with Panama, South Korea and Colombia, overriding objections from liberal Democrats to advance a key priority for both the White House and congressional leaders.

Backers have billed the deals as job generators that will open up major markets to American businesses and level the playing field for workers. The agreements, originally negotiated by the Bush administration, faced firm opposition from labor groups, progressives and lawmakers from the Rust Belt protective of U.S. manufacturers.

The jobs issue is more contentious. Using one common assumption, that every $1 billion of exports generates 5,500 jobs, administration officials estimate that the Korea pact, by far the most important of the three, will “support” about 70,000 jobs. But that’s not the same as net new jobs for the American economy, because the trade agreements also will boost imports of goods from Korea.

 

You can make your own job by knocking on someone's door and offering to clean up their yard for cash. But if folks really believe they are incapable of contributing to society without someone else working out the logistics and anointing them with a "job" ... well maybe they should be a little more grateful to the folks who do that instead of considering it an entitlement to have it done for them. *shrug*

Agreed. Folks have a right to express their opinion and even if I don't agree with their logic, I wouldn't fault them for having a rally and making a statement. The respect goes out the window though when they use it as an excuse to start camping on the street or in the parks.