"Under God"... should be removed from the "Pledge"

We don't need the words "...under God..." in the "Pledge of Allegiance".

The 1923 version is just fine.

 

Hilarious inability to answer my last post. There is nothing wrong with placing "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, just as there was nothing wrong in holding Christian services in the House of Representatives.

You libs attempted to use Thomas Jefferson to make your case, so Thomas Jefferson destroyed it instead - with his very actions.

You fail.

 

To continue this bludgeoning of the insipid leftist claims in this thread, let's continue with another excerpt:

Anyone care to explain that away, and contrast that against the now clearly ridiculous claim that The Pledge cannot contain the words "Under God"??

 

I could answer it, but to me it is FAR from the practical point I wish to make.

I'm talking about TODAY and the effect of the Pledge being altered just a few decades ago.

That's where I am with it.

Let's return to the 1923 version now!

 

...and further:

Conclusion: those who think that "Separation of Church and State" means that there can be no mention or inclusion of religious precepts within Government are absolutely willfully misinformed on the issue, and are merely engaging in guerrilla warfare to take out religion and religious belief from our society, and our Government.

And at that, they will fail, as they do not gird their position with truth.

 

Yes. Of course you could.

So what? The people should be allowed to change their Pledges as they see fit - and people do not want this changed!

You call yourself a Christian, and you're unwilling to cede the argument that Jefferson himself provided you. How weak of you.

 

Requoted for the next page. There is no argument the left has left if they cannot defeat this counterargument.

 

What exactly are the words "Under God" in the pledge doing to non-believers? Are they unable to sleep, eat, take a crap? What? Why can't you people just leave it alone? So because you don't believe, everyone shouldn't? Because you don't believe you can't possible say or even look at the word? These people are just intolerant fools.

Especially since for every 10 people who believe in a "God" of something, there is what maybe 1/2 a person who believe's in nothing.

 

No. There is essentially a 'limit' to how much you can impose your religion or beliefs upon others. And past rulings (even from the U.S. Supreme Court), to the myriad court cases to come in America's future... will likely support the necessary degree of separation required/demanded.

 

... Freedom of religeon goes both ways. Maybe not to yours/everyones best interests. Our founding fathers thought about what they were saying when they created the constitution.

__________

-Jesus is my Savior

 

Your absolute failure to counter Thomas Jefferson's own actions in this regard speak volumes about your intellectual honesty. You know it; I know it; everyone knows it.

You have lost this debate as badly as you could possibly have lost it. Thomas Jefferson condoned, supported and ATTENDED Christian services in the House of Representatives.

Care to explain how this isn't a violation of the 1st Amendment in your addled leftist fugue?

If that is not a violation - and it clearly isn't, as Thomas Jefferson himself supported it - then having the words "under God" isn't a violation either.

You've made stuff up, and your only defense is the stuff that other people made up as well.

 

Call yourself whatever you wish. I don't see where IMPOSING one's beliefs upon unbelievers is good/right.

If you have a problem with my "Christianity", talk to Jesus about it (seriously, I mean it).

 

I don't think it's really imposing anything...

No one is required say either the Pledge, or, "under God..."

If people were being required, that'd be one thing, but, they're not...

 

How have the Courts (including the USSC) ruled since Mr. Jefferson?

I implied already, that I'm not arguing this as a lawyer might/will (in ongoing or coming court cases). I understand that you have a view or opinion on Jefferson and others... but I'm certain enough that people have a right to fight for a "Pledge" which truly includes ALL Americans.

I'm not arguing with or disproving Jefferson, and that is evident.

 

I realize and literally accept that is what you think. Okay.

 

Pay attention closely, Johnny-C, because I'm about to school you again.

Jesus' entire life was about him "imposing his beliefs". He gave sermons freely. Our Government is structured to allow such free expressions, which is why Jefferson supported and condoned Christian services on Government property.

This isn't about imposing belief. No one is required to participate in anything we've talked about in this thread. You're completely inventing claims, and you have no basis to do so.

That absolutely destroys each and every claim you're making. You have no leg to stand upon. Join the correct side - if you're really a Christian, that is what you would want regardless.

 

It's not specifically Christian, but it is specifically monotheistic. If you worship many gods, or no gods, you don't fit in by this pledge.

 

Or you could just say the Pledge as it was originally written, sans the "under God" portion...

Not a big deal...

 

Restore the "Pledge" to its pre-1954 wording. That is the best solution I've seen.

 

So now your defense is that the proclamation of some past justices should hold greater sway than Thomas Jefferson himself?? Or even the dissent of other Justices?

You didn't read the link; it already answered your question:

You are resting your case on the opinion of SCOTUS rulings from fallible people who had dissenters, when obviously Jefferson's own actions completely contradict their claims.

Which would typically be enough for a supposed Christian such as yourself to see which side is correct here.

Um...sorry. Jefferson's opinions are crystal clear, and absolutely refute what you're trying to do to our Government, and what others have tried.

The Pledge already reflects the view of the majority of Americans. You know as well as I that your claim to the contrary is a red herring. In addition, if you had any intellectual honesty at all, you know very well that there are many Americans who do not want to Pledge Allegiance at all; they revile the "patriotism" implicit in it.

Therefore, there is NO WAY for a Pledge to "include" all Americans regardless. They - as you - can choose to ignore part of it, or the entire thing.

So quit complaining about some offense that does not exist. People have no right to object to something with which they are not required to participate.

You certainly have no argument to disprove Jefferson. The problem is that you refuse to alter your argument even though Jefferson disproves it.

You had no problem harnessing the term "Separation of Church and State" when it suited you, but now - when the very author of that phrase proves to you that its meaning is not represented by your position, you run away.

Run away, Johnny-C. You've lost this debate as badly as you possibly could have.

 

It is a big deal; and there have been valid court cases (one ongoing) to prove it.

 

I didn't lose this. Really, I await the rulings of present and coming court cases related to the same.

 

Not if the majority objects, it isn't. You are absolutely intellectually incapable of understanding that forcing removal of this publicly supported phrase is a direct violation of the 1st Amendment. People should be free to include the phrase UNDER GOD in their Pledge; it is the will of the majority.

You have been misled by the Devil, little Johnny-C. Renounce him; confess your sins to God, and beg forgiveness. You have been defeated.

 

If it's about people's "rights"... the majority isn't necessarily the ultimate determiner.

 

Then your God isn't the God you claim. It is the Supreme Court. Grow up Johnny: you've been exposed.

You've been beaten down as badly as anyone can possibly be could be in this debate. You lost the moment you chose to harness Thomas Jefferson's words. When you did that, you invited Thomas Jefferson himself to refute you.

And he did, conclusively.

ABC POLL: AMERICA WANTS "UNDER GOD" IN PLEDGE

The 9th Circuit is the most overturned court in the nation. If you rest your view on such a Court, may God have mercy on your soul.